episode 155: fat loss, better body image and self trust: how to have it all with carissa ambis
In today’s episode I have an extremely powerful and moving conversation with a former client (and now friend) Carissa Ambis.
Carissa shares her entire journey from being made fun of for being a “chubby” kid to gaining and losing 50-60 pounds multiple times through extreme dieting and exercise to investing the time and energy on herself to finally find a sustainable relationship with food and her body which has resulted in a body weight she feels healthy and fantastic at.
It is an incredible honor to have former clients come on to the podcast because there is nothing more powerful than hearing the story of someone else who has gone through what you’ve gone through.
Here is what we cover in today’s episode around fat loss, negative body image and disordered eating:
How recognize your own disordered eating and/or exercise
What you learn in coaching and how it actually creates the change you’ve been looking for
What self trust is and what it looks like in action
Carissa’s examples of exactly why we keep doing diets even when we hate them
How you can work on fat loss and improving negative body image at the same time
I truly hope that hearing Carissa’s story makes you feel less alone and hopeful that change is possible for you too.
Episode 149 with Alyssa Hoat is another amazing story of a former client who overcame severe disordered eating and yo yo dieting to finally find ease around food and peace in her body. And this blog post covers my top 3 tips for improving body confidence.
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Welcome to the Diet Diaries, a podcast where we have candid, heartfelt conversations that will help you figure out what, why and how to eat so you can feel amazing in your body. Because it's time to break the all-or-nothing mindset of yo-yo dieting, food obsession and feeling ruled by the scale. I'm your host body image and nutrition coach, Jordana Edelstein. I'm so happy you're here.
jordana
Host
00:25
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Diet Diaries. I don't know what episode number this is, so we'll skip that for today. I'm here with another really special guest about. Probably at this point it's going to be over a month ago I had on a former client, alyssa Hote, and today I'm back with another one, karissa Ambis, who's also super, super special One because she's an amazing client and person and now friend, and two because she's also taken the best care of our dog, izzy. That's actually how we met. It was kind of like through my mom who'd found Karissa, and then Karissa and I connected. We have this really kind of special relationship. That just really means a lot to me. I'm super grateful to have her here today to talk about her experience with food and body image and where she started and where she is and what coaching was like and how it's impacted her life and what's still challenging and kind of all of the things. Hi Karissa, hi Taradana.
carissa
Guest
01:27
Thank you for having me.
jordana
Host
01:28
Thank you, I'm nervous, excited, honored all the feelings, all the things, all the things. As always, we're going to keep it super casual and just like you and I talking and maybe someone's listening, who even knows I thought we could start by just talking about what were sort of, I guess, maybe your earliest experiences or your first memories of struggling with eating, food and body image.
carissa
Guest
01:55
Yeah, oh my gosh. When I was thinking about this because I figured you might ask this I was trying to pinpoint where I kind of first became aware of my body and what people thought about my body, and kind of, I guess, try to determine when it all started. The earliest memory that I have, I guess, is probably when I was in gosh, I would say probably late elementary school, early middle school just being bullied a lot for my weight. I was always kind of what I would consider a chubby kid, not something that really bothered me, I guess, until other people started to point it out to me. There's pictures of me when I was younger where I had a little belly, I had chubby cheeks.
02:45
I was this chubby kid In those pictures. I was happy I was not covering up my body. I was gosh. It just seems like it was. That was me and I was okay with it. Then, when other people kind of started pointing it out to me, I think that's where I really started to internalize all of that and trouble started. Bullying my grandma, I mean, bless her heart. She had good intentions, but she would always say like oh, have you gained weight? Or you look like maybe you've put on a little bit of weight. I also remember when I was at the pediatrician I probably was maybe 12 or 13 at the time and she flat out said to me she's like, you know, you're getting heavy, you need to cut out soda. So that was the thing that she had said to me and I never really thought of it until she said that and I was like oh, okay, I guess I need to cut out soda, because at that point people were noticing my body and commenting on my body, isn't it?
jordana
Host
03:38
like it's so unbelievable how people just think that they can do that right. I mean, that's something that we still struggle with, but even it, I know that people are doing it with good intentions, so I do understand that. But it's like impact, intent versus impact and it's so damaging. Like you felt comfortable in your own body, like inherently, you felt good. There was you wouldn't have been able to label this at the time, but there was like self-trust. There was just kind of like an ease and a comfort, and then someone else tells you what's wrong with you and suddenly it like blows the whole thing up and then you have to like spend the rest of your life rebuilding it.
carissa
Guest
04:19
Yeah, and it was kind of like you know, when, when these things were being pointed out to me it was always, at least to me, came from, you know, it had like kind of a negative connotation to it, Like it was not okay to be a chubby kid, it was not okay to be, you know, a little bit on the heavier side, and so that's, of course, when I started to associate okay, well, being heavy, being fat, having fat is bad, and so that definitely led to a spiral of you know me just doing everything and anything that I could to not be, that, to be smaller, right.
jordana
Host
04:54
Yeah, so and so what did that look like for you? Like the way, like how you reacted and responded to what people were telling you.
carissa
Guest
05:01
Yeah Well, I mean, with the pediatrician telling me to cut out soda, that was something that, surprisingly, was very easy for me. I was able to do that. I switched to only water, you know, and that kind of stuck with me well into my adult years as well. I think it was a very, very long time before I had soda again. I think at that point it had just become, you know, I just didn't care for the taste of it anymore after not having it for so long.
05:25
But other than that, I mean there were times where I remember from middle school, you know, kind of going into the early years of high school, and you know again being bullied for my weight, just being tired of it and not wanting to deal with that anymore. So you know I made a point, I was going to lose that weight. You know I was going to do whatever I could to to be the smallest version of myself that I could, and so back then what that looked like for me. I was never an active kid, so exercise and moving my body was really not a part of that equation at that point in time.
06:00
So it all fell onto food and my relationship with food. So at that point in time I tried my hardest to eat as little as possible, like go as long as possible as I could between meals. You know, I was thinking back to it last night when, you know, preparing for this interview. I wasn't tracking calories at that point, but just thinking back to what I would eat and how often I would eat. I was probably eating anywhere from a thousand to 1200 calories a day as a, you know, 14, 15 year old.
jordana
Host
06:35
Right, so growing, so growing. It's exactly what I was just thinking.
carissa
Guest
06:38
Yes, the energy who needs the nutrition. So that was not there at all and it worked. You know, of course, it worked because I was in a huge calorie deficit even with not being active and it worked. Back then what I thought was so well that all of the boys in school who bullied me turned around and then wanted to, you know, talk to me and go out with me and do other things that teenage boys wanted to do with good looking girls. So you know, that also kind of reinforced the whole. This is what I need to do in order to be accepted, this is the right way to do it, or I'm getting the positive outcome that I'm so desperately was looking for. So that kind of reinforced those habits.
07:29
I also remember when I had like my first, so what I would consider my first serious boyfriend. We were in kind of a long distance relationship. He lived in the Poconos, so I would spend weekends at his house because obviously I was in school during the week and I just remember being at his house and, just again, trying to just eat as little as possible, because I didn't want to eat in front of him. I didn't want him to associate what I ate or how often I ate with me and my body and have it reflect negatively on being potentially impact the relationship. So that was something that I kind of struggled with as well.
jordana
Host
08:05
That must have been so stressful to be like there with your boyfriend away from home trying to have a good time and then I imagine, like just feeling hungry the whole weekend.
carissa
Guest
08:15
Yeah, I was thinking back to that too it's. There were times where I was so hungry and I just kind of told myself, well, this is what you need to do to essentially look and be the way that you want, because others want you to be that way. And I think there were times I said I was eating maybe a thousand to 1200 calories a day. There were times where I would sound so sad but you'd lie in bed at night and just feel like it was still not enough, Like if it was on the 1200 side, maybe that day I would still be feeling like, oh my gosh, I ate too much. And just remember crying and just wishing that I didn't have to do all of that, just to, I guess, be the way that I thought I wanted to be at the time.
jordana
Host
09:03
So you're going through all this internal stress right and counting through your calories and laying in bed at night and feeling like 1200 calories was too much, and at the same time everyone's telling you how great you look and boys are asking you out and it's like how is any human of any age, let alone a teenager, supposed to reconcile those two completely opposite experiences, where one person is telling, not one person.
09:31
All these people are telling you oh, you look great, you're miserable doing what you're doing, but then you think that what you're doing you have to keep doing Because people keep telling you you look great. And then you start to think that what you're doing is okay because people are telling you you look good. It's like it kind of blows my mind when we pause and actually think about what a nightmare that is and that still goes on. Like there are countless women, adults who are still dealing with that. As a teenager, when your brain is not fully developed, you're trying to socially figure out and make your way in the world and it's already so complicated to be dealing with. That is just it's heartbreaking and like soul crushing. I just it's terrible.
carissa
Guest
10:14
It is. It's sad and you know, obviously now, knowing what I know from just getting older and obviously working with you, you know I think back and I just feel so sad because that version of me just didn't know anything else. Yeah. And knowing is like so much, so we'll get into that before.
jordana
Host
10:31
So this was happening during high school. What, how long did this like period go on for where you were like really restricting food and where did that kind of take you?
carissa
Guest
10:41
Yeah, I think you know it was sustainable until it wasn't. Obviously I kind of did what I felt I had to do. And then life changes, you know, graduated high school college. You know there's the stress of that. I was a commuter so I was driving back and forth every day. It was really long days.
10:59
So I think between high school and college is kind of where I felt quote unquote fell off the wagon, as people say. I just could not keep up with, you know, not eating that much and just being on the go, not active in the form of exercise, but movement, a lot of movement, walking around campus, you know, just up at 7 am, not getting home until 8 pm, you know, that kind of thing. I just I couldn't continue doing what I was doing anymore and so it kind of switched to the complete opposite end of the spectrum where I just didn't care anymore. I was, you know, using food as a way to cope with stress. I was just eating whatever I wanted and didn't really care about, you know, nutrition at that point because I had restricted for so long and went without a lot of foods that I really do enjoy.
11:52
So I think you know that is kind of where that all or nothing kind of comes in. Before it was, you know, all I was on. I had to do everything to keep this weight off, to be the smallest version of myself, and then at that point it was kind of like, well, it's just too hard and I'm not gonna try. This is not meant for me. You know that kind of mentality.
jordana
Host
12:12
Yeah, yeah, it's like living in the extremes, because sometimes there, in a way, it does sometimes feel easier to do that, because then you've already made the decision.
12:23
This is what I'm doing the rules are established, I know the boundaries, and then I don't have to think, I don't have to decide, I don't have to pay attention. But, like those extremes, it's just it's too much for our nervous system, it's too much for our bodies in the long run, like, as you experience with the restriction piece, like that could only go on for so long because it took so much work and effort to do that. So much mental energy. Like so much stress, so much planning and rigidity and control. And it's like, well, there's a finite amount of energy that we all have. Like I talked about this all the time like it's our pie and it gets cut into pieces. And if you've got two thirds of your energy and attention and time pie going towards controlling food, then there's a whole or part of your life that's not getting that and that's only sustainable for so long. So, yeah, like it's not surprising that that's like what happened in terms of, like the ebb and flow of things.
carissa
Guest
13:22
Yeah, and exactly when I had restricted for so long and obviously it wasn't enjoyable the praise I was getting was enjoyable, but the actions that I was doing was not enjoyable for that time. So when I kind of decided, forget it, I'm just gonna go back to doing what I do and kind of just honoring what I want and kind of going easier on myself, it felt nice to not have to, like you said, live in those rules anymore and it was, like you said, almost to the extreme of just not even caring anymore at that point. So yeah, I think I had. I don't think I said, but when I from high school or a freshman year, when I had decided I'm gonna lose the weight up until probably throughout starting college, I had lost maybe about 50 pounds or so. So that was a significant amount of weight that I had lost. And then once I kind of made the decision that it's just not, I can't keep up with this anymore, it's not sustainable, I did gain all of the weight back and then some, and I think what kind of flipped the switch for me to kind of again start to go back.
14:33
The other way was that a family member ended up passing away at a very young age from cancer and they, I guess, never really took care of themselves, in that they didn't go to the doctor, they didn't get checkups and things like that. So that was kind of a wake up call for me to kind of want to take care of my health and not just to look a certain way. I wanted to get healthy for the benefits of that. And I think it started out as that. And then it kind of when I started working again to lose the weight and become healthier, it kind of started again to creep into the well, I wanna look better too. So, even though maybe I reached a point where I was healthy again, it kind of the draw of that having the aesthetics and stuff took over again.
15:27
So that was a little bit of a different experience, because for me that was kind of when I turned to exercise. I kind of said, well, the food thing didn't really work out last time, so let me give exercise a try. And, like I said, it was never really an active kid, so I was kind of starting from scratch with that. But I joined a gym and worked with a trainer for, I think, maybe one session a week and then was just taking a lot of classes like the group classes that they offer. And, looking back, I remember that there were days where I was at the gym doing primarily cardio for gosh close to two hours, yeah, and I had that the time. It was like not a Fitbit, it was like a polar watch.
16:07
You had to wear like this little strap around and measure like your heart and stuff, and so at the time I had that and I remember there were times where I would like look down at that and it would be close to like 1300 galleries that I would be burning, you know, over this like two hour period of this intense cardio and so, yeah, I mean I dropped the weight again.
16:25
You know, quickly I lost about gosh, I think 60 pounds and food wise. It's funny because I remember back then like I was on Snapchat and stuff and I remember posting a snap of like we went out with friends and it was like a plate of food like chili, cheese fries or something that was not very nutritious but like very delicious, and I remember posting and the caption that I captioned it was this is why I worked out so that I can eat foods like this. Yep, so it was kind of like my relationship with food then was kind of like, well, I'm just going to eat whatever I want and then overcompensate with the exercise. So that was kind of another extreme, I guess that I went through.
jordana
Host
17:07
That had to have been again like really stressful to constantly. It's like either preempting the food or chasing after the food and to know that you had to spend that much time like, to be able to find and create that much time out of the day almost every day, to do that like that's an incredible amount of stress to live with on a daily basis.
carissa
Guest
17:31
Yeah, and once again it was not sustainable. You know I was working close to full time, still in school, full time, so it was hard to keep up with that, and so you know, once again it's something that worked for a while until it didn't.
17:46
And then kind of found myself, you know, again at that point kind of like graduating college and at that point I was with my you know, my fiance now and we were looking to like buy a house and you know just other life transitions. And again it was something where like didn't put myself first, food and exercise kind of fell to the wayside and kind of came into well, you know, there's other more important things and I'll figure it out later and the pandemic happened and so once again, getting all the way back and I just remember, you know, like after things started getting a little bit more open again after the pandemic and being able to join a gym again, you know, I was like I'm going to try again. But I kind of really was like I don't know what else to do at this point, because things that I've done have worked in the short term but they never seem to stick. I was really hesitant about, you know, trying again, but I just knew that I wanted better for myself, for my health and my happiness.
18:45
So that's kind of, when I decided to do that, joined a gym, still didn't really know what to do as far as like food, but it was going to figure it out. And then, yeah, just naturally kind of happened to come into your life and when I realized you know what you did and you know, I guess it seemed so different than everything that I had tried before. So I kind of figured you know, what do I have to lose at this point, right? So you know, kind of took the leap with you and honestly, it's been the best thing that I've ever done, because I don't want to say I'm completely at peace, but things are so much easier now after my experience doing the coaching with you.
jordana
Host
19:22
So so you know you have had like a huge like the classic yo-yo right, gaining and losing, and not just. You know it's tough, no matter how much weight, but 50 to 60 pounds is it's a lot of weight to swing and to physically go through that. So as you kind of went up and down right and you had gotten the feedback like oh my God, chrissa, you look amazing. And then you gained weight and did people like how did people respond to that? Like were they vocally sharing again?
carissa
Guest
19:54
Yeah, yeah, it definitely was. You know family, again, you know they probably have good intentions but the actions are not the best. So, yeah, it was a lot of family, you know. I think at that point in time, you know, I kind of was in a serious relationship and I'm grateful that I have a partner who has loved me at all. You know stages of you know my physical, my mental, all of that.
20:17
So there wasn't that, I guess, pressure that I had had when I was younger. I meant more as, like, potential romantic partners commenting on, you know, my body, but yeah, from family. And then obviously, you know, I'm 30, so I kind of grew up in like when social media was growing up and becoming a thing, so back, kind of back. When I started I think it was like my space was the only thing that was really out there, and then, you know, kind of Facebook and Instagram came after that. So I think it was less pressure and commentary from like direct commentary from other people and it also became a little bit about like the type of social media that I was consuming and then the inner dialogue that I had with myself in just kind of like, you know, being negative, being mean to myself. Yes, that developed too.
jordana
Host
21:11
Yeah, yeah. And I think what you said before about like when we kind of found each other, you were like I had done, I had done, I had done restricting the food, I had done the crazy exercise and you were still in a place, obviously, where you weren't feeling good because there were no right, there were no skills, there was just like the do everything or do nothing. And I think I kind of think about this a lot with people who have been through these experiences for all of these years. It's like at a certain point, you get to the point where the pain of what you are currently doing to either lose weight or maintain weight or to feel some sense of control outweighs the scariness of doing something new, right, because there's comfort in going on a restrictive diet, there's comfort in saying I'm going to go to the gym for two hours five days a week, because it's familiar and there's a feeling that we can control it and we've made the decision.
22:09
And it's like in place, doing something new, like working with a coach and like learning skills and learning how to speak kindly to yourself and starting to learn about how being something, being nutritious, is different from it being healthy and understanding breaking down. Like I remember when we first started working together, we talked a lot about like emotional eating and we were using like the feelings wheel to identify all of that. Like really digging into it can be terrifying. Like even though in the long run it's going to be good, in the moment to let go of the things that we've done, even as damaging as they are to us, can feel really scary. And so I think, like I appreciate you kind of like articulating that, like kind of getting to that breaking point where it's like OK, well, what I've done hasn't worked and I know that I have to do something different now, as kind of unfamiliar as it feels.
carissa
Guest
23:04
Yeah, and it was extra scary because all of the things that I had done with the food restriction and the intense exercise, kind of getting the outcome that I wanted short term and then long term having it not last it damaged that self trust. I had no trust in myself to be able to quote, unquote do it to actually make it happen. And so I think that was definitely a fear that came up going into coaching was I don't know if I can do this, like I'm going to take this step, but I really don't know if it's going to work for me because of me, and I guess my quote failure is in the past.
jordana
Host
23:45
But I was just thinking like we see them internally as failures. But the minute that someone said something to you as a kid that you needed to, that you were chubby, that you needed to stop drinking soda, that you had gained weight, like that's when the self trust gets broken, because we kind of inherently, are born with the skills and the awareness to understand when we're hungry and when we're full. But very, very, very early on it's taken away because of people who, meanwhile, who were like oh, you have to finish everything on your plate. Oh, you can't have dessert, so you eat all your broccoli. Oh, you want to have like 64 snacks all day long? Great, have 64 snacks all day long.
24:31
And so immediately our innate ability to sense hunger and fullness and know why we're eating and know what we like and what we don't like really gets stripped away.
24:45
And then it can feel terrifying to rebuild it when we're feeding off of and getting our cues from external sources, whether it's other people telling us we've gained or lost weight, or seeing ads or marketing for diets, or being told how great our life is going to be when we look a certain way, or being told what foods that like candy bars or junk food and are unhealthy and fruit and vegetables and whole grains are healthy.
25:10
When it's like it's so much more complex than that, it's very hard to have the belief and the confidence and belief that we are capable of being able to make those decisions and understand and relearn those cues.
25:24
It's and I think, personally my two senses that I think that's what holds a lot of people back from doing coaching and trying to do that work, because it does feel terrifying. In a lot of ways, it feels easier just to keep doing what you're doing even though it sucks. So, again, this is why it's so great to have you here sharing your experience, so people can hear this is what it's really like, this is what I've been through and, yeah, I talk about that for myself, but I also do this work, so in a way, it's a little bit different To hear from you who are living it and you have your life and your career and your partner and your family and all these things. This is a very long-winded way of me saying I appreciate you being so candid and honest just about your whole experience, because it's really just so valuable for people.
carissa
Guest
26:11
Yeah, and thank you for providing such a platform for people like me to do that, to share our struggles and our stories and our journey. I kind of hate that word, but our journey I know, that's what it is, yeah.
26:24
With these things, I forgot what I was going to say. I think it's something that, with coaching, it really is a process of unlearning basically everything that you know, and the crazy thing is that what you know, or what you think you know, is actually what's wrong. So you're kind of unraveling all of that and learning kind of the right way. Well, I guess the right maybe is not the right way. I know what you mean, yeah.
26:51
Yeah, yeah, but you're kind of learning, I guess, maybe the natural way, the way that things should be, and not the, I guess, the lies and the stories that you've kind of been fed from other people in diet, culture and society.
jordana
Host
27:03
All right. So what was it like for you when we started working together, kind of coming off these, I mean over a decade of kind of up and down and food and exercise restrict? Well, food restriction and exercise excessive exercise. What was it like for you to kind of do something totally different that was new and unfamiliar and like, just how did that feel for you?
carissa
Guest
27:30
Yeah, I mean, like I said, at first it was scary. I didn't know whether or not I was going to be able to do it. I didn't have that trust in myself. But as we were working week by week and working on building the skills to better cope with things like stress, eating and that desire to want to jump back into the next fad diet or whatever, as we were working through those skills and then putting them into action in between our sessions, that's where that self-trust started to build again. I was seeing the progress that I wanted to see.
28:03
I've always had a fat loss goal, has always been something that I've had again for aesthetics, but also for health reasons as well. I finally came to that understanding that it's OK to have a mixture of both. It doesn't have to just one or the other. So, yeah, having both and seeing progress and in the direction that I wanted things to go, as we were working through the skills and building that self-trust back, that was really powerful and for me and I think it gave me more confidence to feel like I can take control of this and do it in a way that I'm not struggling to, I guess, but in a way that I'm not depriving myself of anything or no restriction, no excessive exercise, things like that, just doing it in a way that is sustainable long term rather than short term.
jordana
Host
29:02
I think what you said I'm so glad you said that that there's a lot of noise out there right now about with anti-diet culture, that you can't want to lose weight, and I find that to be so problematic because to me, that takes away people's autonomy. Each of us is allowed to make the decisions for ourselves, what we want to make. I think where the discussion needs to be is why are you doing that? How does it align with your values? In the past, all the years before where you were either crazy, exercising or restricting food, it was to get that positive reinforcement from someone else to be told oh Chris, you look so great. Oh, chris, you go out with me.
29:45
But it sounds like, as you went through that and realized that that was just a dead end, that now it was coming from a place where you wanted to be healthy. You wanted to feel good and, yes, there's an aesthetic piece of it and I want to feel good about how I look. But it's about how I feel, about how I look, not about how someone else feels about how I look. And there's a really, really important distinction there where we derive self-worth from how we feel about ourselves, not from how someone else feels about ourselves. Some people would say we should derive no self-worth from how we look. I don't fully agree with that, because I think that's where humans and appearances and how we look are part of how we interact. They're part of how we interpret our surroundings and connect with people, and that's not to say that it should be the only thing, right.
30:36
Can it be one piece? Yes, is the piece you rely on the most? No, but is it part of it? Yes, as long as it's alongside the internal piece about. Is this an alignment with what's important to me? Am I feeling good? Do I trust myself? Am I speaking kindly to myself? It needs to come alongside all of that, not just separate from it. So, yeah, that's been a really big part of my own work, and I know it sounds like for you as well.
carissa
Guest
31:09
Yeah, looking back, that internal validation and that part of it was not something that I ever considered in doing the things that I did to get where I wanted to be and that's something that I think, through coaching, is something that I've started to really develop and lean into is that internal piece of it.
31:31
I'm doing what I'm doing. As far as decisions that I make around food and exercise, I'm doing them for me, because this is what I want, not because somebody else wants it for me or if somebody else is telling me how to be. Again, don't get me wrong, especially now. I think now it's very, very nice to hear when somebody has something positive to say about my appearance and my weight loss. I think, like I said back then, it was kind of, I guess, adding fuel to the fire of those negative behaviors that I was doing, but now I know that what I'm doing is sustainable, I know that I'm doing what's in my actual best interest for my health and well-being and I think now when somebody makes a comment like that, I'm just at peace with it. I'm doing it for me. I'm not doing it because to get your reaction. Yes, yes.
jordana
Host
32:26
Can you share? What are some of those things, some of those skills that were really powerful for you and some of the things that you still use?
carissa
Guest
32:35
Yeah, absolutely. I think I'm going to break it down by movement, food and then body image, because three components to the picture. So, as far as exercise is concerned, I stopped doing things that I didn't enjoy doing. I'm not a big fan of cardio. I still include it because I know there are benefits to it, but I don't force myself to do the two-hour cardio sessions anymore. I kind of incorporate a lot of walking. I like hiking and then other forms of movement that I actually enjoy, and not movement that said, do this because this is going to help you lose the most fat or do this because this is what all of the celebrity trainers are doing. So I'm really doing a lot of strength training. I really enjoy that.
33:22
There's so much joy for me in feeling strong and feeling powerful. And it's funny because back when I was younger and kind of going through the struggles, I always wanted to be the smallest version of myself and I think now with strength training I've developed some muscle and back then if I had done that gosh, I probably would have been destroyed, like, oh my god, these muscles make me look so big. But now I'm so proud of my muscles, I'm like, yeah, I can lift a lot of weight and in certain lighting you can see the cuts of my muscles sometimes. So stuff like that. Really it's leaning into forms of movement that bring me joy instead of just doing what other people tell me I should do. So there's that. And then also resting, too, when my body is just not feeling it like, honoring that, not forcing myself to work out because I said I was going to work out for X amount of hours, x amount of times a week, really resting when I feel that I need to, and trusting that once that rest period is over, I'm just going to go right back to what feels good and moving my body in a way that I enjoy. So that's kind of like the exercise component of things.
34:31
With food, oh my gosh, there's so much around food. I never really grew up in a family that prioritized like nutrition. I mean like I was fed. Don't get me wrong, it's not that there was no food for me to eat. It's just it's not something that my family really paid attention to as far as nutritional values of food, foods having certain jobs, as we talk about in coaching, so kind of having to learn all of that on my own as an adult, and even with coaching, prioritizing protein has been huge, especially with me doing strength training.
35:04
Prioritizing protein at every meal has been a big skill for me. It's crazy when we did the sit down and actually decided to track like how much protein are you eating in a day, and it was shocking to actually calculate that up and it was maybe like 60, 65 grams and you were like that's real low. I was like wow, I've never paid attention to something like that before. So just really trying to pay attention to that, I say now, on a good day I probably get close to 140 grams. Maybe on a day where I haven't been paying as much attention, maybe closer to like 100. But it's significantly more than what I had been before. We kind of sat down and did that.
jordana
Host
35:47
So what do you? Just I don't want to interrupt you, but I'm going to interrupt you Two questions around that, because this is something people listening are going to hear 65 grams and they're going to think, oh my god, like that's a lot. So it's all relative. So my two questions are how did you get from 65 to 100 to 140? And totally yes, it's played a huge role. We'll play a huge role in your ability to build strength. Are there other pieces that you felt like how did that protein impact other pieces around, like eating and appetite and all of that?
carissa
Guest
36:24
Yeah, absolutely so with that part of it. With how did it impact other parts of appetite? Absolutely, feeling more full by increasing protein Again, not something that I really ever paid attention to and I always kind of considered myself just a snacker. I like to pick throughout the day. But when I made an effort to pay attention and add more protein at my core meals I noticed that that snacking kind of just there was no desire for it. It just wasn't something that I felt, I guess, that I needed to do because I was getting the nutrition that I needed.
jordana
Host
37:00
Awesome.
carissa
Guest
37:01
Yeah, and then what was the first part of your question?
jordana
Host
37:03
What was it like for you to go yeah, so that makes total sense and it just like we talk about these things and you hear about them, but then to just actually hear like oh yes, it actually works. Like you're not a snacker, like there's a reason why you're snacking it's because you're never really full, and you're never really full because you're not the nutrition you need. But what was it like? So to go from 65 to 140 is a massive, massive increase. How did you do that? Like what was it like to do that and what was sort of your approach?
carissa
Guest
37:37
Oh, I see. Ok, yeah, I think I really had to start to take a step back and look at and try to be more aware of what I was eating, when I was eating and built from there. Obviously, I noticed when I was able to pause before eating meals and assess my plate, what is in this plate and protein was just something that consistently was lacking Just having that awareness or developing that awareness to be able to evaluate my plate and say what is missing, where can I add more which is amazing because in the past I would be like what can I?
jordana
Host
38:15
take away.
carissa
Guest
38:16
But now it's like what can I add to either increase my fullness and my satiety and or what can I add to increase some enjoyment in this meal? So that's been big too is just focusing on what I can add rather than what I can take away Totally, and then obviously making a point to learn protein content in different foods and adding them in where I can to try to get that number higher. Obviously, in the beginning it was harder because it's not something that I was used to, but then, as time went on, protein is always front of my mind. Now. It's funny because whenever my fiancee and I, whenever he's like what do you want to eat?
jordana
Host
38:58
I'm always like protein. It has to have protein. I don't care what we but it needs protein.
carissa
Guest
39:02
So it's like our little thing now. So even he's saying it now I'm like what do you want to eat? He's a protein.
jordana
Host
39:09
So, yeah, yeah, it is like you just start to your thinking starts to shift. And look, it's not about perfection. Obviously there's going to be meals and times where there isn't protein, but on a regular basis, consistently, like that's how your brain starts to think because it makes such a huge difference. Like I know, like I'm not someone who can, on a regular basis, have like pasta as my main meal and I don't, I think most people cannot and then people like eat more of it than they want to where they need to, and they're like why am I getting weight? Why can't I lose weight? And I'm like well, here's why. But it's, there's protein.
39:42
I feel like, for some reason has like gotten this bad rap. You know there's so many. There's always like some new documentary coming out about yeah, just eat like all plants. And, yes, eat a lot of plants, eat a lot of vegetables, eat a lot of fruits. For sure, I talk about that too.
39:55
But you also you need protein. You need protein for muscles, you need protein to combat the loss of bone density that we have, especially swimmin as we age, and for fat loss, maintenance, fat loss. It is incredibly, incredibly important. I would go so far as to say it's nearly impossible to sustainably lose fat without having sufficient protein, and sufficient proteins not what it says on the package, the label right, which is probably around like 65 grams a day. Like, if you use like the little RDA guidelines, that's like that's like baseline for like nutritional needs for your body to survive. It's not optimal. So, yeah, I just it's.
40:40
It's such a game changer and it's hard and that's why I wanted to point out what a huge increase that is and that, like it takes time and that doesn't happen overnight. It could take months to a year, to even multiple years to make a type of increase. Like you and I work together for an eight or nine months, which is a good chunk of time, and I know you've continued to do a lot of work since then, because we finished working together in January of this year, so almost a year ago. It takes time to make these changes. It's not like one day you start working with a coach and you're like, oh yep, tomorrow I'm eating 120 grams of protein. They're like, no, no, like we take one meal at a time and you slowly build, because these types of changes they take work, they take effort. Like it's not just going to like magically happen.
carissa
Guest
41:23
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and like you said, they're. You know we're, we're human. We're not perfect. There are certainly days where I'm like oh, I haven't had that much protein today and it's just half. The battle is just being aware of that and then making a conscious effort, you know the next day, to do quote unquote better.
jordana
Host
41:41
Yeah, yeah, just like to keep going with what you know works. Right, yeah. So I know the third part you wanted to share was kind of like the body image piece, and I don't actually know the nutritional stuff. I don't want to cut you off on that either. So, yeah, yeah.
carissa
Guest
41:54
I think the only other thing with I mean there are tons, but I think you know one that's been a game changer for me, obviously, with my history of restricting especially foods that you know maybe don't have nutritional value and their job is more for enjoyment or connection with other people. You know so typically our desserts or our you know really fatty foods or our carbs. You know not restricting those Obviously in the past I did that Didn't really work, I didn't, wasn't enjoying it. So I think just giving myself that permission to have these foods, while also being aware of you know again what their jobs are in terms of like, fullness and nutrition. And you know not restricting them but not overindulging in them either, because I have other goals as far as in overall health.
jordana
Host
42:40
So how did you like, right, as someone who had gained and lost, you know, weight several times over the course of your life, how were you able to reconcile giving yourself permission to have kind of the sweets and the desserts and whatever, without being afraid that it was going to make you gain weight or impact your work on fat loss?
carissa
Guest
43:04
Yeah, that definitely was a fear going into it, of course, because you know, with my history of restricting heavily and then not restricting anymore, the weight did come back.
43:13
There are many pieces and reasons as to why that happened, but you know it's, I think desserts and you know, sweets and things like that always kind of take the brunt of it, like it's always that it's the fault of that. That that's why and I think it's something that I have a sweet tooth, so it's like one of those things where it's like I don't have any enjoyment of cutting that stuff out, like I genuinely do want this. Yeah, I think for me, just really pausing, pausing and just creating space to like make it is, to like make decisions in the moment, is such a game changer, and it's not something that I typically would do. You know, coming from a background of like heavily restricting foods, go out on the weekends and see this like massive dessert with like cookies and ice cream and chocolate syrup, and it's just like you see it and you immediately you just like I want it, I'm going to have it.
44:00
And then you know, by the time you finish it you're stuffed and you're like, oh my God, why did I eat all of? That I didn't.
44:06
I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't. So I think, just kind of working on creating space to just think about what I really want with these foods and what I'm looking to get out of them has been has been huge. So I was able to kind of have these foods around and they just don't take up that mental energy anymore because I know that I can have them at any time when I want them.
44:29
And I also know that I don't need the whole thing. I don't need the whole candy, I don't need to have the whole box of cookies right now. You know it's actually better because you can enjoy them multiple times during the week.
jordana
Host
44:44
So, yes, yes, I think, like giving your. I mean we've talked about this before and I've talked about it, but you just said, like, when I give myself, when I allow myself to have it and I stop restricting it, that's when everything changes, Right, and it seems so counterintuitive, right, because I think a lot of people are afraid Well, if I let myself have this, I'm just, I won't be able to stop, I'll eat all of it. But by giving yourself permission, then you take away the urgency and you take away the pressure to have to have it, and then you kind of have the space to see if you even want to have it. Right, and it's scary for sure. Like I went through that myself, I think I don't, I don't think I've worked well. I shouldn't say that most clients I've worked with have been through this where, especially whether some people are like more savory thing around chips and snacks and some people are more sweets and some people are both, whatever your taste preferences, whatever it is, we are afraid of those foods and those foods feel like they control us, and it's not until we give ourselves the permission to have them with structure in place, right, like there's.
45:49
You know, if you follow kind of the very formal, intuitive eating approach. It's. It's different than the way I approach things and the way we approach things Like, yes, you have permission, but we're going to do it with structure, right. It's not like, if you want to have cupcakes for dinner, you have cupcakes for dinner. It's nowhere to have a cupcake on a plate after we've had a meal that has protein and veggies and a carbonate, right. So there's structure in place and you're going to eat it at a table and you're going to put it on a plate and you're going to pay attention and all of these things and that like, and that works Right and it's just. It's just, yeah, and it just frees up, like, so much of your life to like live the rest of your life instead of being obsessed with thinking about food all day long.
46:31
Yeah, it's like you take your power back from these foods and, at the same time, it's not a free for all you know totally, that's exactly it, like you can do both, right Again, there's like these schools of thought when you can only do one or the other. Like you have to say whatever, I'm just going to eat cookies all day, every day, for meals, and people will do that, and people will make progress with that over time. But it can also be really there's a lot of stuff that comes along with that. You don't have to do that in order to make progress, in order to get to the other side and have peace around foods. Like, yes, it's about giving yourself permission and having the structure in place at the same time.
carissa
Guest
47:08
It's both, both and yeah, absolutely, and kind of segue into the body image portion of things. But also it ties into like exercise and food is just. I think something that really impacted me from coaching was the concept of like tender and fierce self-compassion. For me it was always one or the other. It was with the heavily restricting and the exercising intensely. That was kind of like too much of the fierce self-compassion, like to the point of it's like you're damaging your mental well-being by forcing yourself to do these things. And then on the other side, kind of in the times where in the past I would say I fell off, that was a little bit too much of the tender self-compassion, like oh, it's OK, like don't worry about it, you don't have to do anything. Like you are who you are and it is what it is, and you just kind of sit there and accept it. Now I think through coaching I have been able to develop kind of a nice balance of both, you know, through the skills that we've, we've worked on and implemented.
jordana
Host
48:16
So yeah, yeah, that's it's, that's you just been huge for me too. And I think that's kind of like a mental trap we fall into, where it's like I have to punish myself in order to change, or it's just like whatever, I give up, exactly. It's just, it's complete. It's complete acceptance. But the difference is like it's accepting the things we can't control and taking action on the things that we can right, and so that's like that's, that's those. That's like the language ever we want. Everyone has different language they take away.
48:45
That's what I kind of use, right, and you mentioned, tender and fierce, like it's all about what resonates with us kind of personally, based on our own Just personalities and lived experiences.
48:54
But yeah, it's all, it's always a both, and it's like when we get to those either or places and having to like choose one thing, that's where stuff goes like downhill, because it's just not. We are humans, are constructed in such a way that like, yes, sometimes that black and white thinking is easy but it's not really beneficial to us, like we have to be willing to pay attention and stay present and make decisions and Be intentional and be thoughtful, and all that Takes work and that's again like I think that's why it's hard for for people. But I think like and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, especially because it's been so much time since we finished coaching like it takes a lot of work at first and then I think for certain things it takes less work over time, like it takes less energy and effort. It becomes like your new. It becomes your new autopilot in a way, and that's not to say you're checked out, but it just becomes that, becomes your defaults. Your old default has now gone and your new default is kind of in place.
carissa
Guest
49:51
Right, it's kind of just like your your new routine at that point.
jordana
Host
49:54
Yeah.
carissa
Guest
49:54
Do it and it's just seem it's like takes less effort, like you said. Yeah, I think for me, with food and exercise that has definitely been my experience of a lot of that now is just kind of I don't really need to think about it, it just kind of happens through the skills that we worked on and practicing them. I think for me, where I still struggle is the body image portion of things. You know what, with food and exercise, it's a lot of like tangible skills that you can practice and something you physically are doing, versus body image, where it's all of it is mental. You know it's it's mental work that's often the hardest, you know the hardest work to do. So for me, the body image portion of it is kind of still where I struggle. And that's not to say that you know, like you failed me as a coach or or I failed as the person being coached, it's just it just goes to show like how insidious and how deeply rooted this stuff is in our.
50:47
And just from you know, my experience is growing up.
jordana
Host
50:49
So yeah, yeah, it takes. I mean, I do this for a living and every day I have to do work around body image, like I have to Work skills that I know work for me. It's. I don't think it's something that you ever check the box. I think it's something we will do collectively Until the day we die, and I don't think that's a bad thing, right? Do we wish that things were different and there was more body diversity in a wider range of bodies represented and less expectations and less people commenting on how we looked? Like yes, but the reality is like none of that is going to change and so it's up to us individually to Take care of ourselves and to learn the skills, because it is.
51:36
It's working at ebbs and flows. In some days and weeks and months are harder than others, but just knowing that there is a way to respond to it, there is a way to manage it, I think, in and of itself, as company, right, it's not. It's not like a sentence, like a, like a, like a sentence for the rest of our life, meaning like well, this is just how it is, like I'm just gonna have to be miserable and hate the way I look and Like barely be able to look at myself in the mirror every day for the rest of my life. Like that is not, that's not true, like it doesn't have to be that way but yeah, I think it's it for sure is ongoing work. I think normalizing that is also really important. Like there's no finish line, there's no box that gets, there's no like I Graduated, like I'm all good, it's just. That's not what being a human is.
carissa
Guest
52:20
Right, and I think another component of it too is that you know we see negative body image and then we see, like, positive body image, like that the you know what is the body positive movement.
52:29
You know what is the body positive movement, and it's like you have to love yourself at all different stages and, like you know, never think anything badly of yourself. I think that's just not realistic for a lot of people, actually people that have had experiences similar to mine growing up and their adult lives, and I think For me, progress in the body image realm has been shifting my negative body image and the perspective that I had to more of a neutral stance. You know where I'll have days where you know I notice I have a negative thought about my body, but it's something that Kind of I'm able to work through in the moment and kind of get it to just acknowledge it and then kind of move on from it. Yeah, you know not to say that I'm completely, 100% happy with the way that I look all of the time. You know certainly have good days where I do feel that way. Yeah, I think just being more neutral about my body. For me it has been incredible because, coming from a place where it's always been negative.
jordana
Host
53:30
Yes, yes, where you're just expending less energy On thinking about your body and the way that your body kind of controls your thoughts and your behaviors and the way you're kind of interacting with the world, because it very often does. And I think what you just shared, and maybe you can talk just a little bit about this, is when you are right now, like in terms of your body and how you've kind of been like up and down and sort of Right. I know kind of when we had left off, you were in a place where you were kind of like feeling good about where you were in terms of like weight and size and shape and all of that. And Even with that, there's still body image struggles, right. Even when you get to a place where you're like, oh, like you know, my clothes are fitting well and I'm feeling good, those thoughts are still there, right. There's no like end point where you get to like a quote certain body and all that goes away, like that doesn't exist.
carissa
Guest
54:22
Yeah, absolutely, and that definitely has been my experience where I'm proud of the progress that I've made, and there are times where I have a day where I'm looking and that voice in the back of my head, you know, challenges me and says, oh, it's still not enough. You know, keep doing more. Maybe try this a little bit different, maybe restrict a little bit of this. Like the Thoughts and like the noise is there.
54:46
But, the difference now is that I really don't let it control my actions anymore, so that has been so like liberating for me. Yeah, yeah and.
54:55
I think again, that's something that people expect, that you know, maybe if I do this work I'm never gonna have this noise, I'm not gonna feel this way anymore, and it's just I have found that that's not true. But I think you're better able to I don't want to say cope, but you're better able to kind of handle it when, when that comes up, you're better able to Logically, rationally work through it rather than just giving in to the emotion of it and Letting it take you down.
jordana
Host
55:23
Yeah, yeah, there's like the skills to respond. The thoughts are gonna come, because that's how our brains are wired, and Sometimes they can Decrease in volume and decrease in frequency. For most of us, they're always gonna be there and it's being able to respond to them right and, like you said, like they're not controlling what I do, they're not controlling how I feel about myself, they're not controlling my behavior, and that's like life changing. It's huge. I think liberating is a great word Liberating.
55:49
Yeah, it's been so, so freeing. Like you said, it just Freees up.
carissa
Guest
55:51
So much mental space and energy for other things. Which is something.
55:59
I never realized that like I needed After I did coaching and I was like this is great, yeah, so, and I think in the realm of body image, like I said, I think that's the portion of you know the three that I still struggle the most with, but you know some of the skills that work for me. When I'm having a, you know, kind of more of a negative body image today, I really do try to just like lean into appreciating and acknowledging my body for what it can do, rather than what it looks like, or sometimes even in spite of what it can look like. You know, there's this narrative out there of, you know, larger bodies just don't perform as well an exercise, or you know it's. It's like a stigma to be like a larger body and moving. It's like it's crazy. Because I saw something on social media. It's like, you know, when you're in a larger body, they want you to go to the gym, they want you to like put in this effort and then when you do, you're criticized for either doing it wrong or, like you know, your body is not the type of body that should be doing this movement, and it's the catch 22. It's like you can't win.
56:59
So just really trying to lean into appreciating my body for what it can do for me is really has really been impactful for me. Yeah, and then also just following you know, trying to kind of curate for me social media is something that well, I would love to be social media free. I Recognize that it's not something that I can do and a lot of like my generation and younger generations are not going to be able to. We just grew up with it so it's always going to be this part of you know, our lives and I think for me, something that's been big for for me and my body image is Making sure that I'm following people that represent a diverse group of you know bodies, whether it's, you know, race and or size or people with disabilities, like I think for me it has been very impactful to kind of curate my social media feed to represent you know, lots of various different body types and that's allowed me to kind of make peace with my body, to yeah, totally, totally with you.
jordana
Host
57:57
That's been a game changer for me as well, and just seeing a lot of different things and just seeing a wider representation and being reminded every day that it's normal for bodies to look all these different ways. There's not only one way for a body to look, because again, we're taught that that's again. That's one of these things we're taught from such a young age. It's so deeply ingrained into our understanding of the world that we need constant reminders around that. And now, with the age of social media, which will obviously be the rest of eternity yeah, we're seeing all of this so often it's even more important to make sure that we're also filling that space with people that we see ourselves. We see ourselves reflected in them.
58:45
Right yeah, anything else that you want to share that we didn't cover, that you were like oh, I want to talk about this. I just wanted to leave some space for that.
carissa
Guest
58:55
Yeah, I mean, I think I would just like to say that for anybody, if anybody listens to this, anybody listening is hesitant about doing coaching or it's just isn't sure if it's for them, if they're not sure that they can do it.
59:08
Like you're hearing from somebody who had the exact same thoughts as you and I am now here on the other side of you know, eight to nine months of working, you know, with you, jordana, and you know I can confidently say that I am the happiest that I have been in my body, with food, with movement, and I truly do feel that it is because of the work that you and I did together, the skills that we developed and putting them into action and just challenging everything that I had been taught, you know, up until then. So for anybody who's hesitant about it, I go hard, at least support, you know, you taking this, this step for yourself, and I think it's something that I don't allow myself to say a lot, but I think the past versions of me that had these struggles like would look at me now and just be so proud.
jordana
Host
59:58
So that's amazing, just like I'm so happy for you, like you were willing to do the hard work and get uncomfortable and show up day after day after day, and you're still willing to do that, and that's really what it's about. So I'm just incredibly grateful for you and for our time together. For you to share all this today so publicly with people like is such a huge service to so many women. So thank you so much.
carissa
Guest
01:00:23
Thank you, like I said, thank you for creating a safe space for people like me to share our stories and to do this work.
00:00 / 01:00:45
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