episode 228: the body grief of surviving breast cancer with veronica kautz

May 19

What happens when your body no longer looks, feels, or moves the way it used to—and you didn’t get a say in the matter?

This week on The Diet Diaries, I’m talking with Veronica Kautz—a breast cancer survivor, wife, sister, mom of two and worker of 2 full time jobs (she’s the founder of Scotch Plains City Lifestyle Magazine)—about her experience living in a body that’s been through a double mastectomy and breast reconstruction.

We talk about: 

The grief of losing her breasts
How to advocate for your health
How her diagnosis impacted her tween daughter
The unexpected feelings after having breast reconstruction

This conversation is raw, honest, and so needed. If you've ever struggled with body image—especially after illness, surgery, or any major physical change—hope you’ll listen in. This one’s for you. 💛

A lifelong builder and believer in people, Veronica brings over 25 years of experience scaling high-performing sales orgs in the Talent Acquisition space. Today, she’s championing AI-driven hiring as CRO at OptimHire while also co-publishing Scotch Plains City Lifestyle, a hyperlocal magazine connecting brands with community.

Born on Long Island and now proudly rooted in Scotch Plains, NJ, Veronica is the youngest of five sisters, married 19 years, and mom to two incredible kids — one boy, one girl. She’s walked 60 miles for a cause, pitched CHROs by day and local businesses by night, and believes deeply in doing good work with good people.

Off the clock, you’ll find her front row at a concert, cracking up at a comedy show, or cheering on anything live — because for Veronica, it’s all about connection, whether across a table, a Zoom call, or a stage.

recording-1_2025-05-06_10-07-19
veronica: [00:00:00] See that too.
jordana: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Diet Diaries. I'm here today with a special guest, Veronica Ks, who is a breast cancer survivor, and also the founder of, uh, scotch Plains City Lifestyle Magazine, which is how we met at a business networking group about, I don't know. A month or six weeks ago, and we were chatting after the, after the event.
Um, and she was asking me what I do and we were talking about things and um, she was like, oh, I'm, I'm a breast cancer survivor and I've had reconstruction surgery and it really drastically impacted my life, obviously, but also in terms of body image. And I was like, oh my God, will you come on the podcast?
She was like, yes. So, um,
veronica: Well, originally too, I asked you, I don't know if you remember this. Why I approached you is, 'cause I wanted to talk to you about the idea of if you do anything with, um, like. Teens and, uh, young girls because I wanna make sure, like I'm as a mom of a 13-year-old, I'm so concerned about the way that I talk to my daughter, daughter [00:01:00] about her body image, and I wanna make sure it's a positive message, right?
Like, and I don't want her to think because I'm like workout work out that I'm telling her she's fat, right? And I'm so concerned that the words I say are wrong. So I wanted advice from you, and that's kind of how it all started too.
jordana: yeah, you're right. You jogged my memory with that. And we can talk about that too. Right? Um, and actually, um, we don't have to get into this now, but I'm also so curious about how your experience with breast cancer and surgery, what you went through, what that was like for your daughters and, and you know, that, that piece of the story.
So, um, thank you for being here. Um, so let's, let's kind of jump in and. I thought maybe we could start off with you sharing, um, your story with breast cancer to whatever, however much you're comfortable, um, and however much of it, meaning the extent, the length of time that you want to share. Um, and then we can kind of just see where that takes us in terms of talking about, you know, the body image aspect of things and, and what the recovery has been like for you and what it continues to be like.
You [00:02:00] know, as time passes.
veronica: Yeah, it's weird. You know, you hear the word cancer, um, and your heart stops. Like you definitely, it, it, it skips a beat, a couple of beats. Um, but it's interesting how that word can also, um. Make you realize how lucky you are, right. And how much life like you still have. So it's, it's kind of like this interesting feeling when you, when you hear that word, um, because my, my story is, is beautiful.
Um, and part of that is because I, I made it beautiful, right? Like that's how I wanted it to be. And, and everyone's journey is. Is so different. Um, you know, I I, I, you can't compare it. You can't it, you don't wanna compare it, right? Like every journey should be its own. Um, and I would say that my story is really one of advocacy.
Um, so my mother, she lived here. I'm one of five girls too. So I [00:03:00] am the youngest of all my sisters, all five of us. Um, and my mother had breast cancer. Um, my grandmother, her mother had breast cancer. Um, her sister had breast cancer. Uh, my cousin on my, my dad's side had breast cancer. So it's. It's in my family.
Um, my mom actually had cancer three times. I was like, my mom has cancer. Like the normal person gets a cold, right? I was like, okay, again. Um, so she had, it was around 2019. She had gotten really sick, um, and for about almost two years. It was, um, a very long, draining process of helping her. And she had a colostomy bag and it was, um, it was very, very intense and thank God I had my sisters, but I was always the one who could kind of handle the gross stuff.
Um, and she lived so close to me, so it, uh, we took care of her and ultimately she died in March of 2021. And it was, uh, it was, it just took years off of all of us. [00:04:00] Um, but during that time, I. I completely neglected my own health in making sure that I took care of my mothers, I neglected my own. Um, and so I was laid off from a company and I, I was like, you know what?
I, I gotta, I, I have to do something with this time. Um, so I decided I was gonna go back and, you know, get all of my doctors back in order, my dentist, my gynecologist, all that. Um, and I went to a genetic counselor, um, and I gave her all my information about the history, and she was like, all right, well, you have a strong history.
Let's. Um, you know, let's do a test. And she did a test and the test came back and I think it said like I had a, um, like 0.02% chance of getting cancer in the next 10 years, but then considerably, um, increased and I think I was at like a 40% risk after all that, but not for the ne and not until the next 10 years because all of my relatives had it post menopause.
And I, at this point, I'm 50 now. Um, so, but [00:05:00] I got it when I was 48. So, but I was starting menopause at that point and I'm, I am now because of the tamoxifen, some of the drugs I'm in menopause. Um, so, you know, 40% that gave me the right then to have additional testing. So what we decided. Is every, we were gonna do something.
Every six months I was gonna do my mammogram and then 12 months later do my mammogram. But then six months later do an MRI and then 12 months after that, so every six months I was getting tested, um, my mammogram came back fine. Then I went to my first mammogram, my first MRI, and they saw something. Um, so it first, MRI, they caught it.
Like after doing all of this, um, and then I had to have a biopsy, MRI, um, which. Was probably one of the more emotionally draining procedures, emotionally draining. Um, just because there's your, your, your head just spins and it [00:06:00] takes two weeks and that two weeks of just like trying to, you know, understand and come to turn.
Right. It's, it's, and it's actually, it's not a comfortable procedure, but I have to say that the, the women it was at, at Summit Medical in Flo Park. When I say that the two women and one of them, um, her name was Mary, which my mom's name was Mary, and like they were rubbing my back and I would not have gotten through this without those women.
Um, so, oh, and by the way, in March of 2023, I had, uh, torn my ACL, so I was recovering from ACL surgery. And I'm, yeah, I'm on this table like trying to get this biopsy and they have to help me off of it 'cause I can't like bend my knee and do all, they were just so lovely. Um, and so I waited two weeks. That was right, right around Memorial Day.
Um, and I found out June 2nd, 2023. And I remember the date so clearly 'cause it was the day that my [00:07:00] son was graduating from eighth grade. And so he went to school at Holy Trinity and we were, um, at Mass and I got the phone call from the doctor and of course I didn't take it. And then we walked over to the graduation ceremony and I listened to the message and it just said, Veronica, this is Dr.
Price, who I also would advocate anybody to talk to. She's amazing. Alison Price, she's my breast surgeon. Um, we have the results of your, um, MRI biopsy. Why don't you give me a call? Here's my cell phone. And I just,
jordana: when the doctor gives you their cell phone, you know?
veronica: right, like what doctor gives their cell phone. So, um, I sit through the graduation, you know, trying my best to, uh, to be excited.
Yeah. Um, but it's, it, it's really hard. Um, and then we went out to lunch and I said, oh, I have a work call. I'm just gonna make a work call. Um, and I was in the parking lot of a restaurant when I called [00:08:00] her and I found out, and then I just called my husband out. Um, and I said, I, I have breast cancer. I was diagnosed with, um, ILC, which is invasive lobular, um, cancer, and it was low grade.
Um, but she said, you know, I think, you know, we're, I'm, I'm confident that we can get ahead of this. It's okay. You know, I think you can probably even just, um, uh, what? Oh my God, why can, I'm losing my, what is it when you just have, uh, the biopsy removed?
jordana: Like a
veronica: Uh, a lumpectomy. Thank you. Um, she's like, I think we can probably just do a lumpectomy, et cetera.
So, um, you know, why don't we come and talk about options? So I told my husband, we went back into the restaurant and I, I said, I don't want to tell my kids, I don't wanna tell anybody until I know what my treatment is. Right? Like, I, I needed to, I needed to have those answers because I knew, especially with my kids, I knew that my kids were not going to be able to process it.
[00:09:00] Um. That was gonna take two weeks to get to see her. Um, and during that time, like I was, I was just a mess. My son and my husband as a, as a, uh, graduation gift, they went to a couple of different ballparks, which was great. And I was like, no, you still have to go. You still have to go. Um, so it was just me and my daughter at the time.
And it's so funny because she has no idea how much she saved my life in those two weeks, like leading up to talking to the doctor. She was just so. She's just such a happy love person. Um, and she was, she's a snuggler, so she just saved my life in those two weeks. It was really, and she has no idea. And I actually, now she does.
'cause I tell her Molly Rose, the girl that saved my life. Um, and so once I went to the doctor, my husband and my husband is amazingly amazing. He is very supportive. Um, you know, he's like, whatever it is that, that you wanna do. And I had said way before I was diagnosed, I said, if I am ever diagnosed with cancer, I'm getting a double [00:10:00] mastectomy.
That's just it. I don't ever wanna have to worry. My mother, when she had it, she had, um, a single mastectomy with no reconstruction. So this was 1993. Things were much different in 1993 than they are now. Thank God, um, for me, not for my mom, but, um, you know, the, the medical care that they give you now once you get cancer is much better than in 1993.
Now, I'd advocate to say that the, the idea that you have to, you know, fight to get MRIs when it's, that's the thing that's really catching it, um, is necessary for all right? Um, and, but not all are getting that. Um, so, uh, we sat down and she, you know, explained and went over overall like the different, um, like, have you heard of triple negative?
So I always think of the word negative as being like, oh, that's a good thing. But triple negative is actually really bad because that means your body's not [00:11:00] responding to the, to the different hormones. I, I, I'm probably saying it wrong, but, so I was triple positive, which was a good thing. Um, so, uh, you know, it was, it was stage one.
Um, and, uh, they said it was slow growing, um, but it was still invasive so it could get to other parts of the body. Um, and she could probably get it with the lumpectomy. If they don't get it all with the lumpectomy, then they would, you know, we would talk about other options. Um, and I just said, no, I want, I want a double mastectomy.
And she was like, okay, well we can certainly talk about that. And she was. Amazing. She was like, this is your body. It's your choice. But again, I had said that, you know, I knew I, I wanted this before all this. And my husband was very supportive when I fast forward, um, when they saw the, the, the lump, um, or the cancer, the, it was like point.
Two centimeters. It was something really small, right? Um, [00:12:00] when they removed it, it had grown by 17, it was 17 times larger than what they saw. And it's not, I shouldn't say it grew, it didn't grow. It's that, um, it was hidden. So they call this this sneaky cancer because it hides behind ducks, which is really hard to see.
So it was behind the duct for so long and then eventually started growing so that you could then see it. So God loved the person that was reading my. Uh, let my MRI that day that they saw it, but it was that much bigger. So if I had had a lump lumpectomy, they would've had, they wouldn't have gotten all of it 'cause they only thought that it was, you know, a certain size.
So I would've had to,
jordana: to have had the mastectomy anyway.
veronica: right? Yep. And then I still have another breast. I would still have to, you know, worry about that breast, um, and the chances of recurrence. And, um, so for me, that was the right decision. Um, but again, everybody's journey is so different. Um, and whatever anybody decides is [00:13:00] the, is the right decision, right?
Like, I actually didn't even realize this, but um, you can choose to not have reconstruction and a lot of women do, and it's beautiful. Um, so there's, you know, there's just so many different ways that you can kind of go about it and everybody's journey is different. Um, but for me, the right thing, because cancer was just so prevalent, um, it was just the right thing for, for me to do.
I didn't realize I. Exactly what, how I would feel after. Um, but you never do. Right? Um, when I, when I think about body dysmorphia. But, um, so that was kind of, that was my, my journey. But again, it was why I say it was, it's a journey of advocacy. 'cause, you know, I had to advocate for me to go to the genetic counselor, to, which then allowed me to get more tests and advocate for a double mastectomy so that I don't have to worry about this again.
So, um, that's what I just think is, is really important, is advocate and advocate for yourself.
jordana: You know, you, you, we are all the experts of our own bodies,
veronica: Yeah, I.
jordana: often. I mean, especially when it comes [00:14:00] to really serious medical issues, place that in the hands of our doctors, right? And of course they have knowledge and experience that we don't have, but they also don't have the knowledge and experience of being in our own body and having our lived experience and our mindset and our history and, and what we've been through. And I, I'm, I'm so, so glad that. You're here sharing this for so many people to help create awareness for other women listening to this, you know, who might have similar family histories or who might not. I have a little bit of a story to cancer. I did not have cancer, but around advocating for myself to get testing because of predisposition for other things. Um. We really have to look out for ourselves. Right? And to your point, like you were only, you only qualified for certain testing because you hit a certain threshold of risk,
veronica: Right.
jordana: And that doesn't mean that people who don't hit that threshold of risk don't have some risk or don't need that testing. so it's, I'm, I'm so grateful for you for being willing to, to share [00:15:00] this, um. Because this is what we need to be doing this more, right? Advocating for ourselves, speaking out, and knowing that we know how we feel in our own body and what's going to be best for us, right? Electing to have, I mean, double mastectomy is major surgery, having reconstruction is major surgery. Um, and, and you making that decision for yourself, knowing that was gonna be best and taking into account your mental health. As much is as much a part of this as the physical health, and I just, I think that's, it's so, so important.
veronica: Yes. Yeah. And you're faced with questions that you never thought you would have to answer, right? Like, um, do you wanna save your nipples?
jordana: Mm-hmm.
veronica: What? Right. Is that an option? I, I, I have no idea. And they were like, well, if you, you remove the nipples, then um, you, you're able to take more of the, the tissue, right?
And then the chance of recurrence is less, but if you [00:16:00] leave it, you have a greater chance. It's still a very, very small chance. But, um, some people opt to have their nipples, um, removed. I, I, I chose nipple sparing, um, which. We had issues with, and I can explain that later, but, um, I did choose that. But there's, there's, um, artists out there and I say artists because I know some folks that have had, um, double mastectomies and reconstruction and did not save their nipples and went to tattoo artists who have 3D tattooed.
Well, it is. Beautiful. It is amazing. And the fact that people like do that kind of work, right? Like it's just, it's, that's uplifting to me, right? Like trying to find all these like great uplifting things, but Yeah, no, you, you, that's an option too. So I'm like, it is just these questions you don't, you don't think about,
jordana: think of. Yeah.
veronica: never think of.
jordana: So what was the process for you? So you had the double mastectomy and then what happens after that in [00:17:00] terms of the recovery time and what that was like before you can then have reconstruction 'cause or it doesn't happen at the, it doesn't happen at the same time. Right.
veronica: For me, it could not. My sister, um, was diagnosed recently and it did happen for her at the same time 'cause she had, um. Cancer that they call that's called in suit, which means it kind of just stays where it is, where mine was invasive. So it has the potential of, of growing outside. Right? Um, so I was not able to do any kind of immediate reconstruction, especially if you're going to get any kind of chemo.
They don't want you to have your implants in. Um, and you know, all, once they do the testing of the, of the, the biopsy, then they figure out kind of what your, your pre your treatment is after that. Um, so for me, um, I had the double mastectomy and can you believe, and, and again, my doctors were amazing. Um, uh, Dr.
Joseph is my plastic surgeon and again, I highly recommend him. [00:18:00] Um. It's you. You don't stay a night in the hospital. It was ambulatory.
jordana: The double mastectomy.
veronica: The double mastectomy I was out that day.
jordana: Wow.
veronica: Uhhuh
jordana: I would not have expected that.
veronica: right it, I mean, it's an amputation. Essentially, um, so they send you home that day and they send you home and you have, have you heard like the tubes and everything and the balloons and the drains?
Right. Um, so I had, I only had two. Um, some people have more, but I had one from each. Um, and it's, it's. Frightening. It's, it's, first of all, it's uncomfortable, right? Um, but it's weird to see your part of your inside just draining outside of you. And that becomes like mentally draining too, right? Um, and you can't, you can't shower for two weeks.
I didn't shower for two weeks. Um, I can't wash my hair. My sister Loretta came over and washed my hair and was like, blow drying [00:19:00] it, right? Like, there's just, I I, and then once the. The, the drains did come out. I still couldn't lift my arms. I was, you know, they call 'em t Wright's arms. You're kind of like, just scratching your head.
So, um, there were so many things that I didn't realize I, I couldn't do. Like, I couldn't, I couldn't reach the button on the top of my, um, van to shut the back door. I couldn't put dishes away. Um, I still, to this day, drop. Everything. Like I just, I, I don't have like the arm strength, like the grip strength anymore.
Um, I couldn't vacuum 'cause I couldn't extend my arm. I couldn't, um, do laundry. Laundry actually was the most painful for me because we have a top loader and so reaching in and pulling out heavy wet clothes was so painful. Um, and so they, they, you know, obviously the two weeks, the drains are in, but they also, once they take the tissue out, they put in what's called spacers.
Um, and it, they're just like oval round [00:20:00] pieces of plastic that they inflate with. Um, uh, si not silicone. Um. Saline and you go back to the plastic surgeon and they fill 'em up over time and like they'll do one, you know, dose and then another dose so that you can kind of get comfortable with the size and figure out where you wanna be.
Um, and so that stays for, um, I think the spaces are in for about six months. I had 'em in, 'cause then I had the reconstruction in January of, of 2024. Um, but it's you, you don't sleep. You can't, oh, I used to be a, a stomach sleeper. I can't sleep on my stomach anymore. Um, and you can't even really lie flat. Um, you have to sleep a little bit like sitting up.
So I actually got one of those chairs that, um, will push you up and out, you know what I mean? Like I rented one for two weeks, it brings you up and then you just sit and it brings you down. 'cause I couldn't, I couldn't do any [00:21:00] of that. Um, so thankfully I, I was able to, to get that chair and that, that helps a lot.
But I mean, even now to this day, like I still will go and stretch and I, you can feel it. There's not a, there's not an hour that goes by that I'm not reminded of it in, in some way because I, I do something or I see something or I think of something. So.
jordana: what you just said right there. There's not an hour that goes by that I'm not reminded of it. Right. So you're, are you considered cured? Like what's your status?
veronica: Yeah, so I am considered so my, everything came back negative, which is great. Um, and my recurrent score was really low. Um, like there, there's all these different tests that they run on you. Um, and so even the, um. The option for treatment after, because it's invasive. Um, I'm on tamoxifen because if, god forbid something did, um, spread right, like it could have gone to my stomach, it could, we're still kind of not waiting, but you know, [00:22:00] just making sure that, that that doesn't happen and that's that five year kind of remission.
Um, so technically that's where the five years that I'm in, even though everything came back negative, I like to say that I'm cured. Um, but they can see, I think it's called like one A is my stage, is what it might be called. I, I forget, I might be wrong on that, but, um, I could have done chemotherapy too, um, to offset, but the, the chances of it coming back with chemotherapy.
Versus not doing it, were not great enough for me to put my body through that. And again, that is my decision and my choice. Um, but I didn't want, and I didn't wanna put my kids through that.
jordana: Yeah.
veronica: Um, I was like, if it's we're talking, we were talking about like one, 2% difference.
jordana: Okay.
veronica: I was like, I, so for that, I just am choosing not to do chemotherapy.
Um, so that's why I said like, my journey is kind of beautiful, right? Like, I, I didn't have, um, I didn't have to put my body through any of that. Um, [00:23:00] and so I'm just on, on Tamoxifen. Um, so that's like, I'm, I mean, technically I guess still the, the remission stays, but
jordana: so, so you're taking, you're taking a pill every day, right? Which is obviously a reminder of it, but what you said before about. An awful pill. You said in what way?
veronica: So it, it, it puts you into menopause like times 30, essentially. The night sweats, the sweats, the brain fog is no joke. But even just before I was like, lumpectomy, what's that word? Like, I literally will stare at something and I'm like, I know what that is, and I cannot think of the word. Um, so the brain fog is really bad.
It got bad so bad where I was like, I, I started having panic attacks about it because I couldn't. Like, I just was so insecure and, um, that became a problem. And when I say that I'm tired all the time, I am tired all the time, like to get out of bed. And I, it's not like I'm depressed at all. I wanna get outta bed.
I, I'm like, oh my God. But I'm so tired. I [00:24:00] love my family, I love my life. Um, but sometimes you just feel like you have the flu in the morning. Um, and I'm on this for, for five years, so it definitely, um, it, it, it it drains you, um, in, in a lot of ways. Yeah.
jordana: Yeah, because what I, when, when you had said, um, you know, every time I move my arm, I'm reminded of this. Right? It's, it's part of every moment of the, every day. Right? And then in addition, right now you've just shared what it's like to be on this long-term medication and the side effects of that.
Right? So these kind of constant reminders that, of what you went through, of what you're still going through, um, and like how do you, How do, how do you, how do you cope with that? And then I also want to hear, well, let's just, I'll, I won't ask two questions at once. How do you work through that? How do you cope with that?
veronica: Um, I think that, um. You know, you, you hear about like, um, uh, [00:25:00] if someone's in a car accident, right? And you know somebody dies, but you don't, right? You have, um, again, here's my brain fog. Um, what's that word when survivor's guilt. Thank you. Um, so there's a weird part of me that has that too. So. I recently had a friend of mine from college whose wife just died of breast cancer, and I felt guilty because I was like, why did she die from breast cancer?
But I didn't. Right? Like it's this weird game mind fuck, right? But then it's like, I'm the youngest of five girls. How did I get cancer first? You know what I mean? So like, so you, you're on both sides and you, you, you like, it just, you, you change every single day. So sometimes I have this survivor's guilt.
Um, but I think every single day I, I'm honestly thankful and grateful for I. My journey and all of the people that have supported me, I had an [00:26:00] amazing support system. Um, and at the end of the day, yes, do I have some pain? Do I, can I, like, I'm touching my breasts right now and I can't even feel them. Um, but I don't have cancer.
And so every single time I feel that, I just reminded myself, I, I don't have cancer.
jordana: cancer,
veronica: So that's what gets me through every single day. Is that just reminder, um. And it just, it just works. I kind of just keep telling myself that.
jordana: It's like your perspective shifts over time, right before you have cancer. It's like obviously anticipating or thinking about getting cancer feels scary and overwhelming and like a nightmare. And then it happens to you when you go through it now you deal with all these other side effects of it and it's like, well. I don't have cancer anymore. So it's like, there's just this shift as you go through different experiences, like our perspectives change based on like that lived experience.
veronica: Right. [00:27:00] And I have, I have two kids. I have a full-time job. I have two full-time jobs, right? Like, I don't have time to be tired. Um, so I think you just, you just figure it out. Um, I, I have so many reasons to be happy, um, and I very easily could have used this as an excuse not to be, and I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't let it, um, nor would the people around me let it.
jordana: right. Yeah. Like you made choices where you had the power to make choices and have control over things, right? And so much of what you don't have control over or you get cancer, it's, there's no control over that, right? But where are there opportunities to have control and make choices?
veronica: Right? Yeah, absolutely.
jordana: has the piece, so you came home from the hospital and you had, you said you had the small, like the, the spacer was in there.
veronica: Yep.
jordana: So what was it like see your body looking, looking like this so different than you had looked at it in the [00:28:00] mirror every day for 48 years.
veronica: Um, yeah, it's hard, right? Like, and it's, it's, first of all, as women, I don't think we love our bodies anyway, right? Um, so you probably already have a misconception of how you look and then all of a sudden, I. You look at yourself and there's, you know, t scars across your breast. Um, I'm missing half of a nipple.
Um, and you know, even though they are, you know, perkier now, right than they were before, um, I still don't love them, right? It's because. There's a, a part of me that's always going to resent them, right? Like, I feel like there are women that get breast augmentations and they love their breasts, and they should love their breasts because they chose those breasts.
Even though I quote [00:29:00] unquote chose this size and my breasts, I didn't choose this. And so I'm always, I, I will always resent my breasts in some way, right? Like, I'm never going to. I don't think I will ever wholeheartedly like love them again. Um, it just, they're, they're still not mine. You know what I mean?
Like, I, I just don't, I, there's this weird kind of mental thing that I go through when I look at myself, um, that they're not, that they're not mine. Um, and so I think, you know, that, that's hard in, um, how I want to, like, how do I dress, you know what I mean?
jordana: wondering about that. Yeah.
veronica: Right. Like, am I proud to show 'em? Right. Like, do I wear a bikini now?
No, never. Right. Um, but I mean, I just, it's, it's hard because I, um, I, you know, when I move, I can still feel that they're not mine. They don't move with me. Uh, so I [00:30:00] think you look at each other, you, you look at your body and you just, it's not, it's not shame. Um, it's. It's more like disgust,
jordana: Okay.
veronica: right? Like, you know, I feel like before I looked at my body and I was like, oh, I'm so fat.
Oh, I don't fit into these clothes and I would like hate myself and shame myself for eating something, right? Like it's not that kind of feeling. It's the feeling of like, who I had this. I like, people use the word cancer, like, like as an adjective, but literally I had this cancer running through my body, um, and it's like, have you ever had lice?
jordana: Yes.
veronica: Okay, so you know, when like, or your kids have lice, like all of a sudden my kids got lice and then I was just like, oh my God. And you just feel so disgusting because you're like, I have bugs in my hair. That's what it felt like to me. Like I just felt disgusting. Um, like I just had this lice that I couldn't get rid of.[00:31:00]
Um, and so I, I still kind of look at my body and, and I don't, I don't love my breasts, not because they're not beautiful and my doctor did a great job, but because I didn't choose them,
jordana: You didn't choose them. Yeah.
veronica: and so in a way, I, I kind of will always resent them.
jordana: How do you, I mean, that's, that's gotta be a lot to carry around. But I imagine every time you're putting on your bra, every time you're getting dressed, every time you're buttoning a shirt. Right. It's a, that i, it like flickers across your brain. I'm sure some days it's a lot more than a flicker. I'm sure.
Some days it's like a fire burning, right. And some days it's, it's loud and crazy and some days it's probably more quiet. Um, but to live with that and to know that you're gonna live with that. the rest of your life is, it's a, it's a lot to carry every day.
veronica: Yep. It is a lot, a lot to carry. Um, but again, like that's where I just, I have to remind myself then those are the daily reminders of, um, you know, I don't have cancer. One of the things that my sister [00:32:00] Terry, God lover, who's the co-publisher with me, I think you actually met her at. Outrun Year Fork recently.
jordana: Oh,
veronica: Um, she was there taking pictures.
jordana: Okay.
veronica: Um, so she was, I, I called her my support squad president. Um, and we were all hanging out at a friend's house one day. Um. And I went to the bathroom, I went inside the house and I came out and every single child, every single adult, every single friend had a support squad shirt on.
They all changed. Um, and they were different shirts and Terry bought them for everybody. It was amazing. And so they, and it was like a couple of days before my surgery and, um, somebody took a picture and I have that framed in my, in my closet and I speci, it's like such a beautiful picture. It's like, why is it in my closet?
Um, but I specifically have it there 'cause that's where I get dressed and that's where I get changed. And so I see that and I was like, oh, that's right. It's okay. I've got a support squad. Um, and so those are the kind of things that I find that uplift me every single day. And that's [00:33:00] how I, I get through it.
jordana: That's right. It's like finding meaning obviously outside of like what our body looks like, right? We so often like let our appearance like dictate our self-worth and how valuable we are and the quality of our life, and am I attractive enough or not attractive enough? And what does that mean about who I am and how I show up?
And there's of course so many other ways that we can. Fill in those, fill in those pieces. Um, and especially when you've been something as traumatic as you have, right? And you that with you, it's like, well, what other ways am I bringing joy? Am I bringing worthiness? Am I, am I bringing value, you know, into my life?
And recognizing all the, all the different facets of, of like what this experience has been.
veronica: Yeah. Yeah. And again, I'm also really lucky. My husband is beyond supportive. Um, and he allowed me to make the decisions, but, but carried me through the [00:34:00] entire time, right? Like, even though he allowed me to make all of the decisions, um, he was very supportive of whatever decision I did make. Um, and he, he loves my body.
He could care, like he's, and for him, he probably says the same thing, right? Like. Hey, she doesn't have cancer anymore. She doesn't have cancer anymore, right? Like, I don't know actually what what goes on in his head, but, um, he's, you know, he just, he thinks that they're beautiful. He loves them. He could care less.
Um, so, uh, that, you know, that helps. That really does help.
jordana: yeah. What, what was it like, or what has it been like with your daughter? How old is she?
veronica: She's 13.
jordana: Okay. Um, You know, how did this, I'm trying to think of like how I wanna like word this question or. What was the experience of like for her to see, and it's be her experience well, that she shared with you, seeing you go through this, not even just the cancer, but your body [00:35:00] changing and losing your breasts, having breast reconstruction as at a time when she is going through puberty, you know, or some part of it. Um, was that like, what, what has that been like?
veronica: When I was going through a lot of the, um. The surgeries. One of the things that I made a very conscious decision about was that I didn't want this to impact my kids' lives, their daily lives. And so I, I tried to do everything I can to make sure that they were still going to camps and afterschool activities and football and, um, you know, that they could continue to do that.
So I, I tried really hard and I think for the most part, my husband and I succeeded in that. But, um, my daughter, um. She, it was actually probably just a couple of months ago. Um, she had just gotten her period and. She asked me, she was like, my breast hurts. I think I, um, I think I feel a lump, like, should I go get it checked out?[00:36:00]
And so I had to sit down and talk to her and, you know, like, it's probably not what it is, but that's good that you're feeling and you, you're paying attention to it. So I think that like in her head, um, she is worried about it, right? If she's already said that to me. Um, we just had her annual physical and she had her first breast exam.
jordana: Okay.
veronica: And I, I was there in the room and I was very, you know, her doctors, her pediatrician is great too, but I was like, can you please show her and tell her what she's looking for? Because that's a really, gonna be a really important part of her journey. Um, and she's gonna have to start getting mammographies at a very young age 'cause of all this too.
Um, so I know that she thinks about it often. Um, and when we told the kids, they both. Handled it very differently. My, my son became very like stoic. Um. And wouldn't look at me, but just ask [00:37:00] like some really smart questions, like really good questions about like the health side of it and like, what is next?
And Molly just stayed to herself. And then, you know, when we kind of hugged them, she just went upstairs and cried. Um, and then I remember she came down and, and she was just like, I'm really scared, mom. Uh, and I said, cancer's a really scary word. We don't have to be scared. Let's, let's not be scared. Let's be hopeful together.
Let's choose that, that. Um, so I think that she's still scared, even though she has seen me go through it and survive it. I do think that she's still probably scared because of those, those things. And again, when she's reminded, okay, now I have to do these breast exams every single month. Um, so she's aware of it.
Um, but I think that if you were to ask her. Um, she would probably tell you that I did not, um, she didn't [00:38:00] experience it, um, as much because I, I, I, I didn't want them, my kids to, and again, that was just the way that I kind of process it, processed it. Um, I just didn't want them to, to go through it and see it all.
Um, but I mean, she, she's so funny. Um, you know, last night I forget. We were lying on the couch. And um, something happened and I was, I was laughing, you know, about her leg versus my leg. And I was like, look at. I'm like, look how toned your legs are. It's so great. I'm like, wibbly and wobbly. And she was like, mom, what do you mean you're 50 years old?
You've got great breasts, you have hot flashes, you're in menopause. You've had two kids an ACL surgery, countless other surgeries. Your body's beautiful.
jordana: Oh my God, that's.
veronica: Yeah. Um, and literally that is like, she just went through all these things and I was just like, I love you.
jordana: That's phenomenal. Right? And that's, uh, [00:39:00] a reflection on, on you right where she is. To be able to, to know all that and still recognize a body for what it is, right. And that it's not just this one image or this one look of like what beauty or attractiveness is. Um, that's awesome. That's like so inspiring to hear.
veronica: She, she tells me all the time how great I look. It's, it's nice.
jordana: I love it. That's awesome.
veronica: Yeah.
jordana: Um, what do you do, if anything, like, to feel good in your body? You mentioned like, I touched my breasts. Right. I don't feel them. Right. 'cause there's no nerve endings and when I move they don't move with me. Right. Which is, that's for someone who has not had that surgery, which I have not, that's like a, oh my God.
That must be such like a weird sensation to get used to and to feel comfortable with. Like is there anything that you've done or that you do now to kind of. Feel, um, more comfortable at home in your body? Like since, since you've had the reconstruction?
veronica: Yeah, [00:40:00] so I actually started doing this before the reconstruction, but um, it was critical in the days after. Um, have you ever been professionally stretched?
jordana: Not really.
veronica: So it sounds so like bougie. Right. But, um, I'm not, I'm not huge into meditation. I'm not, uh, like I love doing yoga, although I haven't done it in, in so long.
Um, and that's an interesting thing that I'll tell you too. Um, or like, um, Pilates, I love doing those kind of things, but for me, um, I have a, a woman that comes to my house and stretches me, and that has been. A lifesaver for me from when I hurt my knee to this. And she's, I mean, she's great and it's, it's like, oh, you can stretch by yourself.
Yes, you totally can. But she fixes my posture. She makes sure that when I'm breathing, I go back into the posture, the, the stretch, the right way. And she can push my body just a little bit [00:41:00] further to get that stretch. Um, and that saved me. It Absolutely, I would highly recommend it to everybody. Like I just felt like I could move better because of that.
Um, and she taught me how to do things then on my own. And so like I'll, I'll go into a wall and I'll just, you know, press up against the wall so that I can get that stretch in the chest. Right? Um, so it was like physical therapy, but a little bit different. Right. Um, and so I, yeah, I would just get Perce professionally stressed, stretched once a week and she knew.
Everything, and she just worked with it, um, and modified along the way, and it was just one-on-one. So it was very comfortable. Um, because part of also what, um, I'm in very, very insecure about, I will not go to a gym. I just won't. I won't go to a gym, I won't go to a group class. Um, between my knee surgery and my upper body, I can't [00:42:00] move.
I can, there's so many, like, I can't get on, I can't do warrior poses and get on my knees and do all these things that I would love to be able to do. And I'm just so insecure. Um, and so I, I won't, I won't go to a gym 'cause I just, I'm afraid people are gonna, you know, look at me like, oh my God, that person can't even touch her toe.
You know what I mean? Like something like that. Um.
jordana: Yes. Yeah.
veronica: So I, I just, I'm insecure about, about that. That's, that's a big thing that I haven't gotten over.
jordana: Yeah. I mean, it, it makes sense. I mean, your body, I mean, tearing your ACL and going through that surgery, it's a huge process in and of itself, right? It's a year long recovery process from that,
veronica: Yes,
jordana: You were, you had had the surgery, you were in recovery, and that was when you started going through all the testing process, right?
And you were
veronica: right, right.
jordana: like is tearing your acl L is obviously very different than getting cancer diagnosis. And also in terms of like your body going through surgery and trauma and recovery and feeling comfortable in your body. Right? There's such a, a huge overlap there, right? To go through those two things.
So close together in time [00:43:00] and to, and you know. a big shift in the way that you think about and use your body and what your body's capable of and what you can and can't do. having to like relearn all of that and find that as a process. Right. And I didn't realize when we had met that this had happened so recently.
Right. Just now when you were saying, oh, I was diagnosed in June, 2023. I'm like, oh my god. That's not even two years ago. Right. This is so
veronica: Right,
jordana: and you had your reconstruction surgery just LA January, 2024.
veronica: right.
jordana: It's so, it's so recent. So you know, when you just said like, I still haven't worked through like this insecurity, I mean, all these things happened so recently.
It makes sense like you're still getting to like, relearn and like know your body in this way that it, that it is.
veronica: Um, so then after the reconstruction, when they put in the implants, six months after that, I then had another surgery for it's fat grafting.
jordana: Okay.
veronica: Um, and they take fat. It's almost like [00:44:00] liposuction. They take fat from your body and they fill it in your breasts so that, um, because o otherwise it's just 'cause I had no breast tissue.
Right? Like again, if you get an augmentation and you get implants, there's other tissue that is that around that surrounds it to make it look a little more natural. I didn't have any of that. So you can, it. It kind of looks weird. Um, so they take your, the fat from your body, um, and then they put it in there and that's another surgery.
And that surgery, oh my gosh, I remember the two days after that surgery, I felt like I was hit by a truck That 'cause like the stomach muscles, which is weird, right? And you have to wear, um, uh, like spandex for like two to three weeks. Um, but then they, they put in your, your own body. Um, but I had issues there because I have such.
Um, strong scar tissue because they had to remove part of my nipple after the surgery. Um, and so the doctor said he tried putting in the needle. He broke needles on my scar tissue, trying to get the fat in. So I have one [00:45:00] breast. He did one breast and then went to go do the other breast and couldn't get the fat in there.
So there, there d sizes too.
jordana: That's that you could not get the fat into the other breast.
veronica: Mm-hmm. He couldn't, he, he's like, I tried, I, he used three different needles and couldn't get past the scar tissue.
jordana: Okay.
veronica: So
jordana: does that. What is it like? Is it, is it visible to, obviously it's visible to you, right?
veronica: right. Yeah. Yeah. But I think like, part of me is like, I think that's normal anyway. Right? Like, I don't think supposed to be, yeah, it's like feet. Um, so that, it, it, that doesn't really bother me to be honest. Um, and I don't, I don't really think anybody can tell. It's more just that it was a third surgery, right.
jordana: Yeah. Yes. I mean, it's not right. It's not just this one and done kind of thing. And then every time you have that surgery, it's like, I imagine there's some part of it where it's like, we're, you're going through the process of being sick all over again. Right. And why am I here and why am I going through this?
And having to, to relive all of that.
veronica: [00:46:00] Yeah. Yeah. No, but it's, it's less than two years ago.
jordana: Yeah. It's, which is in the grand scheme of things, like no time at all.
veronica: Right, right. Yeah. No, I think about that all the time.
jordana: I am sure. Um, is there anything else around your experience or your story that you wanna share or that you think could be helpful for other women to hear?
veronica: That's a great question.
So again, I think everybody has a very personal journey. Um, when I was diagnosed, I was very. Um, mindful about not going down the deep dark Google Rabbit hole. Um, there's so many different opinions. There's so much information out there. Um, I chose to [00:47:00] reach out to survivors to get their story and to get.
Their opinion on things or like, should I get, do the nipple sparing? Should I get a bio? You know, a lumpectomy should, and I talked to so many people and it was, that was more educational to me because they were kind of a able to give me exactly what it is that they went through. But I was looking at them knowing that they survived and there was a lot of hope in that, where I feel like when you go through that.
Google search, you hear about the woman whose mother died and right, like it's those stories and they're really important and they need to be told. But when I was going through the decision making process, it helped me to talk to survivors. Um, so I would just say. Talk to other people about it, right? Like, don't be afraid to say it.
Like, even now, sometimes when I'm on a call, if there's like all men and somehow cancer comes up, I will say, I'm a [00:48:00] cancer survivor. I won't say I'm a breast cancer survivor, right? Because it's still weird to just say that word in front of certain people. Um, so, um, I would just say it's, you know, run to it, not away from it.
And talk to other people that have survived because there's a lot of really good and, and hope out there. Um, there's walks, right? Like I think you even mentioned, um, I did the 60 mile breast cancer walk. I've done it twice now. Um, and that is just an amazing, amazing event. I did it out in San Francisco and it's 20 miles for, for three days.
There was one woman who walked with no top on because she had a double mastectomy and no reconstruction
jordana: Wow.
veronica: and it was beautiful and ah, and so like, um, heroic of her, right? Like, 'cause [00:49:00] she even in that walk got, looks
jordana: Yeah.
veronica: right, like, so it.
jordana: is my body and this is who I am, and I can celebrate this.
veronica: And I just loved that she embraced it so much. Um, so I think that if you can surround yourself with other people who have gone through it, find a way to, to, to, to use. Your connections. Um, and like I've made friends since then. Right. You know, it's the club I never wanted to be a part of. Um, but I've made some friends through it and I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change that.
So I would say reach out to other people and, and try and not to go down the rabbit hole of, of the, the bad that you can find on, on the internet.
jordana: Yeah. Choose where you put your energy and attention as
veronica: Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So it's a, it's a process. It's always gonna be a process. It's always gonna be a journey. Um, but for me, I just always try and find the good in it. Uh, because there's, there's been [00:50:00] a lot of good,
jordana: Thank you so much for your time, for sharing your story, for being so candid, uh, for sharing your daughter's experience with us. Um, maybe one day she'll listen to this and
veronica: oh, she'll, no, she wants be on your podcast.
jordana: great. do a mother daughter episode, but I'm actually like not fully joking about that. That would actually be really cool.
veronica: She would love it because we, like I said, we talk about her body image all of the time. Um, and I was like, yes,
jordana: Okay. Let's do it.
veronica: she would love it.
jordana: to all the people who are listening, so accountable for it.
veronica: Yeah, absolutely. Let's do it.
jordana: Awesome. Okay. Um,
veronica: Of course, you're gonna get, like, you're gonna get, like, this is gonna be the worst rated episode and people are gonna be like, I don't wanna listen to her again.
jordana: No, never. Not at all. Trust me, it will hopefully be quite the opposite.
veronica: So thank you for being willing to, to let other people hear this story too. 'cause I do think it's one that needs to be told. Um,
jordana: it will, it can never be told [00:51:00] enough.
veronica: yeah. So thank you. Of course. I appreciate it.