episode 216: how i stopped letting my weight dictate my worth with stephanie brinker

Feb 17

This episode is one for the books. I rarely bring on guests, and when I do, it’s because I know their story will hit home in a big way. Today, I’m sitting down with Stephanie Brinker—a former client, mom of two daughters, and someone who has completely transformed the way she thinks about food, fitness, and body image.

We dive into:  

🧠 The stories we tell ourselves about weight, worth, and success—and how to rewrite them 

💪 Why strength training isn’t about getting smaller (and what it needs to be about) 

🛍️ The closet clean-out rule that changed how she sees her body 

🚫 How Stephanie handles friends and family making body-negative comments—and the boundary that changed everything

🌱 How she’s raising two daughters to have a healthy relationship with food & their bodies

If you’ve ever felt like you’re stuck in the same exhausting loop with food and how you feel about your body, this conversation will show you that change is possible. And not in a “just love yourself” kind of way—this is about real, tangible shifts that let you move forward without obsessing over every bite or every pound or feeling like you have to love everything about your body.

I have 3 spaces open for new 1:1 clients. If this episode resonated with you—book a complementary consult so we can connect and figure out if coaching is the support you need to get out of the all or nothing diet cycle.

Stephanie Brinker is a self-described recovering body dysmorphic. She is 51, a working mom with 2 teenage girls, and decided a few years ago that she was tired of the preoccupation she had with her weight. Stephanie decided to go all in to transform the way she connects to and thinks about food, fitness and her body. While she's still a "work in progress" she's committed to this work for life, amidst all the challenges that come while approaching menopause.

recording-1_2025-02-11_11-17-43
jordana: [00:00:00] Back to the diet diaries. I am very excited today. I have a really special guest. You guys know, I don't bring guests on very often. And when I do, they are always someone who's very meaningful and who I know is going to add a lot to kind of like the conversation in the space that we have here.
Um, and with Stephanie Brinker, who is a former client, um, and someone that we work together, it's been quite some time since we finished up, but we stay in touch and we have conversations. And we had had a conversation about a podcast I did towards the end of last year about an influencer who had a plastic surgery.
And I was talking about kind of my thoughts on it. And Stephanie texted me and started sharing all of her thoughts. And I was like, do you want to do a podcast on this? And like, make this like a public conversation. And she's like, yes, totally. So here we are. Um, I'm going to let Stephanie kind of introduce herself.
And I figured we could start off by talking a little bit about what. You're kind of like what your struggles were that brought you to coaching, because I think that kind of really [00:01:00] informs a lot of like what you and I were talking about in relation to the podcast. So we can kind of go from there.
stephanie: Sure.
jordana: good.
Okay.
stephanie: Perfect. So what brought me to you and the podcast? So I would say I probably had a good dose of body dysmorphia. So it was a combination of that and maybe just having too much food noise. And using food to feed my feelings. Maybe, maybe there was a little bit of alcohol involved too, because of course that numbs the food choices I'm making.
And while I knew I wasn't according to any medical chart, large. I just didn't want it to be such a focus in my life anymore. And it was sort of balancing, how do I correct my own behaviors? So I can, I suppose, be prouder of myself [00:02:00] would be the way I would say
jordana: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that, that makes me think of like being more in alignment, like with your values, like taking action in a way that's actually a reflection of who you are as a person versus like the noise, the external expectations and pressures and all of that.
stephanie: Yeah. And I think before I started the work, so I sort of started on my own, um, I sort of decided I needed to deprogram myself and actually what started it really was. Jamila Jamil did a whole thing about I think it was called hashtag I way and it's morphed into something else, but it was this whole idea that she saw this Kardashian.
Expose and there were numbers over the women and of course, they're billionaires and whatever you think about them personally, it's totally irrelevant to this conversation, but they have made something of their lives and have these businesses and those numbers were not about their billion dollar businesses or what they've created, but rather their weight [00:03:00] and how it's almost like a trick that we play on women.
So if they're so distracted by their appearance and their weight, Okay. Then they're not focusing on advancing their business or they're not putting that energy into something else. That's, you know, frankly, a lot more worthwhile. And so that's what started my journey because I was like. Many people, and I don't want to judge anyone and say that you're messed up, but I stepped on the scale too often.
I had a Fitbit. It was a Fitbit at that time, not an Apple watch. And I counted my steps and the calories so I can make sure that I burned off the cookie. Uh, I avoided carbs. I mean, I never wore shorts. I mean, there were all these things and stories I was telling myself and it just took up time.
jordana: Yeah. Like brain, time and brain space. That, then that, then that's taking away time and brain space from other things in your life that actually are kind of worthy of that energy and [00:04:00] attention.
stephanie: Yeah. And I felt like I started making progress, but I needed help. And that's how I found you.
jordana: How did you, I'm curious to hear more, or for you to share, like how you did some of that work. on your own. Like, what were some of the things that you actually did or thought about or took action on? Because I think that it's hard, it's hard to do that totally on your own and to kind of like know where to start or what to do.
stephanie: Yeah, that's a great question. So I think the impetus is the fact that I'm a mom of two girls. And at the time, my older daughter was becoming a teenager and I had a friend who was starting two friends who were starting a business. And as part of their business that was dedicated to teenage girls or preteens, they had.
I don't know, like a dietician or something. And there were things that they started to post. And one of the things that they posted was. about having a, I don't know if the language was body positive home, but that's what started it. And [00:05:00] so I started to follow this woman, not a huge, you know, social media person.
But what I did as a first step was I curated my feed. So as much as you get all of these things and they're sending you, okay, you know, it's Valentine's. day and don't eat, eat a chocolate strawberry because it's less than eating the bar of chocolate or it's Halloween or it's Thanksgiving or it's whatever.
And then they want you on a cleanse. I just wrote not interested, not interested, not interested, not interested. And you can actually Jamila, Jamil said how you can. Change settings in Instagram. I don't remember at the time to not get ads focused on diet. I, I stopped following a lot of the female, um, I don't know, exercisers that would post their workouts or post their food.
That for me was not healthy. And I actually started following some men. Um, because then I stopped [00:06:00] trying to aspire to be something. It was, it was about something else and it had to become about the fitness as, or the habits, as opposed to. And so by doing that, I learned a lot. And then from there, that led to, there were episodes where people would speak online and they would say things like, if this episode was about, or this stream was about arms, if someone doesn't like their arms, then they cover up their arms in summer, and then it reinforces the point that you're not worthy.
to show your arms when it's 101 degree day. I never had issue with arms, but I felt that way about my legs that I have cellulite and I never wore shorts. Now I want to preface this by saying I was a size four at the time. Could be, it doesn't matter if I'm 113 pounds, 118 pounds, 123 pounds at the time, I wouldn't wear shorts.
That's crazy. And so at some point as I got older, and I think I. [00:07:00] Thank middle age for this. There's something that happens when you enter, you know, around your fifties, 45, 50, I saw things differently. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm a lot of Chris, but
jordana: Yes, you can. Please do.
stephanie: I'm like, fuck that, you know, going hiking and it's hot and I'm going to wear shorts and that was the beginning.
jordana: I so appreciate you. I mean, a lot of things you said, but kind of working backwards, willing, being willing, being willing to, and referencing, like, The, the size of clothing that you took at that time, because I think there's this perception that amongst women that if I am a size X and certainly I think a size four is one of those sizes that people aspire to be, I will love my body.
I will be thin. I will be happy. I will look great. And you sharing that, I think. opens up the door to realize that it's not about the size of your body. It's not about the tag and the clothes. It's about the thought patterns that you have. And those can happen at any size, at any shape. And that if you [00:08:00] are thinking those thoughts, whether you take a size two or a size 12 or a size 20 or whatever it is, there is work to be done because it's a rely, there's a reliance on what we look like for our happiness and our self worth and things like cellulite and where we carry body fat and where we gain muscle are all things that are completely dictated by genetics and things that we can't control.
And the idea that we are allowing ourselves to place our self worth and our happiness on something that we can't control, like blows my mind and we don't even realize we're doing that. And that's why I always like to articulate that. But I think that there's such this myth that if I am a size X, I'll be happy.
And that's just, it's just not true. Um, so I, you sharing that, I think It is so valuable for so many people listening, um, so I just wanted to kind of like spend a moment on that and highlight the importance of that for people. Mm
stephanie: Yeah. I think it's not just happiness. I [00:09:00] had this messed up equation between thin and success.
jordana: hmm.
stephanie: Growing up in high school, the popular girls were all thin. And those were the girls that the boys liked. And, um, I think there's that right. Or there was this notion after I gave birth, like, Oh, look, uh, she's really on top of it because she can be a mom of two girls and she runs this business and, you know, she.
jordana: Looks a certain
stephanie: Looks a certain way and is always put together and she's so fit or whatever. Uh, I will say, as a human being, I have a tremendous amount of energy. Um, and I've always loved exercise. So exercise for me was not as much, I mean, yes, there was always, of course, a physical aspect of it. But if I don't exercise on a regular basis, I'm cranky, I'm irritable, I'm stressed.
There is like a direct correlation between exercise and my happiness. I don't for me [00:10:00] at my size, I don't know if I find that it impacts my weight, especially, um, now that I'm a little older. Right. So
jordana: Mm hmm.
stephanie: through menopause. So there's different challenges as you get older. Um, so I, I try to do different things.
But I found a much stronger correlation between what I'm eating and the weight but at this point in my life, my weight is status quo and the thing is that I Gave myself milestones, right? So if I used to step on the scale all the time I stopped if I I stopped wearing a Fitbit, right? Because I found that it was creating a lot of noise in my head.
Even Facebook, I went off Facebook because I was not interested in comparing myself to others. And like I give anybody kudos if they say that they. Went on Facebook and didn't, you [00:11:00] know, look up somebody or I don't care if you're seeing, Oh, look, she just ran a marathon after having her baby, or she just got promoted after two months being in the job, there's always something there.
And so I just shut those things down.
jordana: What was it like for you to stop getting on the scale? Like was it like a cold turkey thing where you're like one day I'm just not doing this or did you kind of wean yourself off? Like what was the approach you took and what was that experience like kind of mentally?
stephanie: It was a really conscious choice and I don't think it happens slowly over time. So when you start to do the work, sometimes you don't know. If you're achieving anything until you see a milestone in the beginning, it's hard. And, but, and I want to clarify what I talk about as a milestone, a milestone is not a number on a scale.
It's not like that's not the goal. The goal is to [00:12:00] have a healthier relationship with myself, my body, uh, so that I can be a better role model for my girls it's too. So it's. Not to be, it's to be less preoccupied. I wanted to be able to go out for dinner. And you order what you want. You eat when you're hungry, you stop when you're not.
This idea that there are bad foods or good foods, I inherently do not believe that. Anyone who knows me knows I think a burger is a perfect food. It has tons of protein. So, um, so it is a slow process and it happens over time. And so maybe I went from stepping on the scale seven days a week to five days a week.
And then I don't even know if there's a regular cadence now. Um, I am bigger now, by the way. Uh, I don't correlate it to that. I pretty much do the same things I always have. The biggest difference between now and then is that I've [00:13:00] entered menopause. So I think first maybe it was menopause, but I thought it was craziness or anxiety or whatever.
So I tried Lexapro. So I had gained quite a bit of weight for Lexapro and I didn't love that. I ended up switching. Now I'm on Cymbalta. Uh, it's helped me tremendously. And so whether it really was Perimenopausal symptoms that could have been helped with hormone replacement therapy. I'll never know but now I'm on hormone replacement therapy.
So the combination of these anti anxiety meds, which I Love just you know, do I want to be happy and a little heavier? Do I want to be skinny and miserable, right? So I choose happy and I would, I would lie to you if I said, I wish it didn't, you know, cause me to gain the 10 pounds, go back and forth deciding, you know what, I'm 51 years old.
I don't look so bad. [00:14:00] Like I actually look pretty good versus am I really doing everything I can. So. The work doesn't stop, right? It just occupies less time in my head. And sometimes I'm like, I get dressed up, I'm going to a bat mitzvah and I'm like, you know what? I look pretty good. Clothing comes in all different shapes and sizes.
And by the way, a tailor can let something out as much as they can let something in.
jordana: Yes. I think like, again, like you sharing the, the meds you've taken to help support your mental health and the physical changes that have happened as a byproduct of that, I, like the transparency of that is so important because I think there's a lot of shame that women carry around the things they need to do and what happens to their body and am I the only one going through this?
Um. Yeah. And your ability to say, I'd rather be a little bit heavier and happy than skinny and miserable, right, is such a, is such like a shift in a transformation from however many years ago, right, when the number on the scale and being in a [00:15:00] smaller size was like the most important thing, right? That was the, that was the priority.
And so to be able to be in this place now where you're like, okay, the scale's up. Am I thrilled about it? No. Am I able to accept it? Yes. And it's like you and I have talked about, and I remember in some of our texts when we were talking about the podcast, around this idea of like body acceptance. And accepting doesn't mean that you love everything about that number or your appearance or whatever it is. so I, I guess I'd love to hear from you, like what Maybe this is kind of like a, a big question, but like, what does that acceptance piece mean for you? And how do you, to your point, the work is ongoing. How do you kind of work with that or kind of like negotiate with that on like a daily basis in terms of like getting dressed?
And I know like you love clothes and getting dressed and shopping and all that. I would love to actually hear more about that too. I'm kind of bringing up multiple topics, but around this idea of acceptance, like what does that mean for you now? Kind of on like a day to day basis.[00:16:00]
stephanie: So I think the biggest thing I would sum up is this is in the mantra that I tell I started to tell myself in the process, and I say it to my girls, too, because even though we're not supposed to tell our daughters that they're pretty or whatever, like, you know, I still do sometimes. And I tell them that, Oh, my God, you look so good.
But by the way, your looks don't define you. And it's the least interesting thing about you. And that it's that line. So there's two things I think of, right? So, wouldn't, this is going to come off arrogant maybe, I don't know, but I would like to think that I am more interesting. Then what I look like and that the number on the scale does not impact by the way how if I lost the 10 pounds and I don't even think my husband noticed, but if I lost the 10 pounds, he's not going to love me anymore.
He's not going to be any more attracted to me. My kids won't love me more. [00:17:00] Right? And so you sit there and you say to yourself, You know what, like I'm enough as I am. And so you're sort of shifting your why, but that is the big, the number one takeaway I would say for me has been, this is the least, what I look like is the least interesting thing about me.
And that allows me to be hopefully interesting in other ways, interesting in the choices I made with respect to my life. And, you know, I went from working full time. 70 hours a week and I started my own company and now I work freelance. And so that gives me opportunity to pursue purpose driven work, whether it's, you know, high school girl related or supporting Jewish students in college, right?
So those are the things that make me interesting as opposed to what that number is, but the clothing is super important
jordana: Yes, please talk.
stephanie: okay. So there are a couple of people and [00:18:00] I know you. So first of all, I love that you do outfit of the day. There are a couple of other people. They know who they are. One's in our town.
Ellie Mraz started doing it too. I love it. Um, and I don't always do it because I don't actually, when I work from home, I Sometimes I'm just staying in my gym clothes the whole day, but I truly believe to take a phrase from Gail Style or Gail Sobel, uh, in the wellness of style. And what I mean by that is this.
I don't care what size you are literally. And I say this to my friends who I believe, and obviously it depends on what one can afford. But stop buying seven pairs of pants that don't fit you great. Invest in a really good pair and you will feel awesome. The better quality fabrics lie better. They don't pull at your hips.
They're not gonna, they're gonna fit, different styles fit different people better. And we've all [00:19:00] seen the beautiful cashmere sweaters versus the ones that are like getting pilled or whatever. And I think if you Really invest in select key pieces. You will feel great. And you know, it's, it's all sizes. I was getting a pair of pants and I was talking to somebody and they said, Oh, well, you know, I'm not the size of that model.
I'm like, well, guess what? They make leather pants in all sizes.
jordana: Yes, it's I mean that that piece speaks to like the end of going back to what you said about the arms like well I don't have the body for that or I can't wear that because I'm not that size But we have all these these beliefs and we've been conditioned to think that only someone who is Excise or looks a certain way can wear certain types of clothing, which is just like not That's like really a made up thing.
Like it's just not true. It's a story that we've been told and that we've internalized. it takes work to move beyond that. But the power of clothing in general, [00:20:00] because you can get dressed in something and, you know, my, my checklist of three things that I like it, it fits and it's comfortable, right?
Those are like the three things that I'm always running through my head and that I talk a lot about. You can do that at any size and in any shape. And because we can never control. The size and shape of our body, we can control what we choose to put on it, how we choose to kind of show up and using clothing as a form of self care.
And I think that connects so much to what you were saying about, like, really prioritizing it and. choosing one thing that makes you feel fantastic versus seven things just to have like more shit in your closet or because you saw some influencer wearing it or because it was on sale or it's the cool thing at Zara or whatever it is.
It's, it's a, it becomes a way of paying attention to your body, which can bring up a lot of discomfort because then you really have to like look at yourself and see what works and what doesn't and what you like and what's comfortable and whatnot. But it I think it is such an [00:21:00] opportunity to foster a, a, a more, what's the word I'm trying to think of?
I think caring and loving and empathetic and compassionate relationship with yourself where you use clothing to kind of foster that versus as a way to like avoid it or hide things when we're wearing smaller
stephanie: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's almost like a punishment. So, one other thing I did was like, I, I'm, I don't need skinny jeans, and I don't mean skinny jeans the way that, you know, they taper at the leg. I mean, if doesn't fit me anymore, and I don't need it in my closet, or I'm not hoping to, that I'm gonna, I don't change my body to fit my clothes.
I change my clothes to fit my body. And so, if I have things, That don't fit me anymore. Then I get rid of it. I sell it on the reel [00:22:00] reel and now I get money. And then I can use that money to buy something that because it fits me better, I am no longer telling myself, Oh, I need to lose weight. I'm telling myself, wow, I look good.
And that one step is huge, right? If every single person listening, I'm sure everybody has a couple of things that dress that this, that, that, but I don't care what it is. Get rid of it. It is holding you back. And by the time you get to wherever you want to be, you're going to want to buy new clothes anyway.
And if it doesn't, so stop, it's almost like saying you're not worthy. Of buying something nice for yourself because you're bigger
jordana: Yes. Yes.
stephanie: or same thing with sex, by the way, you know, you don't feel good in your body. So you, you don't want to have sex. Well, guess what? Right. Are you not worthy of an orgasm because you're in a bigger body?
No, of course not.
jordana: Yeah. Yeah. It's like those, [00:23:00] the, the, the clothing, even if it's like put away in your closet, it's taking, you know, it's there and it's taking up space. And every time you walk in your closet, you know, that pair of pants, the blouse, the dress, whatever, you know, it's there. And it's like, it enters your consciousness in some way. And it's this constant reminder of like, I'm not that size. I'm not, I'm not that person. I'm not in that body anymore. And there is a, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a chip away every day that you walk in there and it's having an impact that you don't even realize. And so even if it's, even if you have a put away, even if you have it in like, honestly, I think people like, well, we'll put it away.
Like put it in the attic, put it in another closet. And I'm like. Like, I, I just like, I, I'm with you, like, I think it just needs to go. Like I had a pair, I wrote about this in an email, I had a pair of J. Crew pants from when I was, I'm almost 45, I was in my late twenties and I had them up until four or five months ago and I would keep them in this cabinet where I wouldn't see [00:24:00] them all the time but they were there tucked away in my closet and periodically I would try them on and I would know kind of how much weight I had gained or lost based on how those.
pants fit. And I just, I was so, I was like afraid to throw them away. I'm like, if I throw these away, then I won't know. I won't, I won't know where I am. I won't have this like gauge or this external measure to tell me if where I am is okay. Which is like so fucked up because that should not be the thing that's, that should not be the primary way to be getting information about how you feel about your body.
And I finally threw them away and they're not there and they're gone. And I talked about it in, in this email because it was kind of like a sharing this experience, but also holding myself accountable to doing this. And everything in my closet right now fits and is wearable. And Not, I would look at that cabinet and I'd know that they were in there, and I'd go through this decision and make this, in split seconds, should I try them on today, should I not try them on today, should I try them on today, should I not try them on today?
And that [00:25:00] would happen on a daily basis. And you don't even realize the ways in which those things are so insidious, the way in which they are impacting you. And so, Getting rid of them had just created more space for other things to pay more attention to enjoy getting dressed more and not have that like Cloud hanging over so I totally totally agree with you The clothing is so powerful in both directions like in the positive way and it can be in the negative, you know It goes both ways.
stephanie: And there are things that I have that, I mean, there was this gorgeous green metallic lace dress that I wore. And at one point I did, I said, okay. And I literally, it's as if I'm saying it to myself, I say, okay, it doesn't fit me. Guess what? Taylor's, and I said this earlier in the episode, Taylor's let things out as much as they let things in and it was interesting, I was in Vail over Christmas and I had a credit at this store and I went [00:26:00] in, I was with my husband and my brother in law and there was this sort of like suede dress I liked and I consider myself a certain size in this brand and this dress.
I tried it on and it looked good. It was a little snug. And so the way I sort of did the test was when you, if suburban person here rate, I drive a car. So if I go like this and I'm moving my arms. It doesn't act, it's a little tight. Okay. So if I did the size up, maybe it's a little loose, but then I could belt it and I couldn't decide.
And I ended up getting the bigger one. My husband was like, just get the bigger one. You'll be more comfortable. And I got the bigger one and I wore it the other day and I was so glad I did. Because that's actually a huge win for me to not buy, you know, the number of times I go with friends and they're like, well, I'm this size and I really think that they should try a bigger size.
And I don't always say anything because then it will lie better. And then by the way, [00:27:00] if they decide to go for sushi and we were talking about the scale, I mean, that's a whole other thing which we can get to, but like. What if you eat a bagel, right? Or a sushi one day, and you know, Sushi's healthy, quote unquote.
And, you know, you're swollen. Right? I just, I don't need any of that. I want to be able to be comfortable in the clothes. And And I think with the food and the clothes, this is sort of a tangent, but sushi made me think about it. You were asking me about the things that I, there was one snippet that really was impactful about like the arms and the self fulfilling prophecy.
The other one was the scale, and you did a really great episode on this. Actually, maybe it was you who did, who said this. But think of it. It was all about like, what is it really telling you? What is that number telling you? It's not telling you anything. And I think that woman who's the rugby player was a perfect example about how strong and fit and beautiful she is.
And the number on the scale doesn't say [00:28:00] anything. But the other way I look at the scale is it's almost like a weather vane, right? You look out or a thermometer, you look outside. And you're like, it's 98 degrees outside. All it tells you is how hot it is. It doesn't tell you if it's humid. It doesn't tell you the UV.
It doesn't tell you anything else. And I might've been your episode. So if you step on the scale and you're like, Oh, okay. It's up two pounds, which that annoys me when people are like, I just need to lose two pounds, um, you could say, well, that makes sense. Because I had Chinese food last night and I'm swollen, right, I'm receiving water.
So, that to me was freeing also to say, okay, the number is this. That makes sense. Uh, I've been enjoying dessert and every day and I, even though I exercise, I always like a little dessert. Right, it's just, that's to me the way I approach it now. As opposed to being afraid to step on it.
jordana: yes. It's what you're doing is you're looking at it more objectively [00:29:00] and like kind of like I call like fact checking, right? Like you step on the scale, the scale's up and it's like, oh, well that makes sense because I had a ton of sodium, right? Or, you know, there are lots of different reasons the scale fluctuates, but being able to do that starts to strip away the emotion.
So you're not looking at the scale, the scale's up and you're like, Oh my God, it was so gross. I ate so much. I gained five pounds. Like, no, that's not actually, that's not even physiologically like what happened. And the scale is a representation of literally everything in your body down to the cellular level.
It doesn't know the difference between muscle and fat and poop and water and pee and bone and all of that. And those things can fluctuate. I mean, bone doesn't obviously, but a lot of the things, the scales measuring fluctuate on a constant, more than more frequently than daily within a day basis. And. We lose sight of that and being able to look at it more objectively, more factually, is such a helpful skill and it takes practice.
Um, but the, those examples that you shared are, are such like, that's, that's it. [00:30:00] Like that's it in action. So it's so helpful for people to hear that. Like I love, it's why it's so, it's so great to talk with women who have been through this work. Like started in one place and are not on the other side because to your point it's ongoing but have made so much progress because People think that they're just stuck like it's not possible for them.
I'll never be able to not weigh myself I'll never be able to knock it on the scale and have my mood dictated by whatever that number says But it is possible and what you're sharing is how you do it
stephanie: you know, you said something really interesting, which is it's nice talking to people who've done the work, but it can be hard sometimes because people will call me, Oh, I feel bad today. Oh, I gained three pounds. I've been eating so much. And honestly, it's almost a boundary for me at this point. I have to figure out the right language, but once they heard this podcast, they might know this, which is,
jordana: Intense.
stephanie: so first of all, to all my friends who say this to me, you know, this, cause I tell you this.
You're all beautiful, like, [00:31:00] objectively, subjectively, right? Inside and out. And there's not one of my friends who says this to me. And they're big, honestly, right? Everybody I know who wears Spanx is small. It's only the small people who are wearing Spanx. It's not the people who, you know, are very large. And, um, I think that I've started to institute it because it's not healthy for me.
To be pulled back into that world. I don't want to, um, I do want to be there for them. And I try to, and sometimes they'll say, yes, I know you're going to be mad at me, but you know, but I say to them, you're, you look great. Like there's, and everybody is sort of like people would kill to look like you, Jordana.
People would kill to look like me. People would kill to look like them. Right. So, um, so I think you're exactly right. Which is when you've done the work, it's really hard. To be surrounded by things [00:32:00] that maybe can be triggering, which is why I like with social media. I hate that for the young girls because they're just looking at each other and they're thinking someone else's hybrid highlight reel is their real life.
It's
jordana: Yeah. Yeah. Women, I feel like, connect and bond by commiserating over their bodies, right? Like how many times I think to myself, like, over the course of my life, We'll be like, it's like, I'm so fat. Oh my God. No, you look great. I'm so fat. Or like, I ate so much. I was like, you didn't eat anything. Oh my God.
I'm the one who like pigged out. And it's like this competition for who was like the quote worst. And there's this way that women have connected over that, which is like when you think about it is so fucked up that we've been, I mean, taught to do that. That's not something that's innate. That's something that's a learned behavior based on what's expected of us.
But it's like learning in some cases. Like, how to connect with other women, and that's not about that. That's about building each other up, [00:33:00] instead of breaking each other down. And not even breaking each other down, because it's not even always about that, but it's about breaking yourself down next to someone.
It's like, talking down about yourself, and what you ate, or how much you weigh, or how you can't wear that thing, as a way to like, relate to someone else. And that's I mean, so, so detrimental to our well being and to our relationships, but it's like, it's a shift. And once you've done that work for yourself, it's like, you can't relate to people like that anymore.
You don't want to, you can't, you don't need to, but it's like, other people are still doing that. So it's like, how do you find your place in that? And I, you and I have talked about this and I know it's something That you have struggled with and have thought a lot about is like how when people, family members, friends make comments about themselves or about food, what do you do?
How do you respond to it? I was just having this conversation with a friend who was going to Miami with a group of girlfriends, and she was really kind of anxious about. Are people going to make comments about my body? And what are they going to [00:34:00] say? And I don't know how to respond. And it's, it's hard to figure out, like, how do you set up, right?
You, you know, boundaries are what things that we do. We can't control what other people say or do. We can only control ourselves. So a boundary is how we kind of control and set that line for what we are willing to participate in. And I just think it's such an interesting conversation. And it's different on the person as to like, how do you respond when someone says like, Oh my god, i'm so fat or like I look disgusting in that outfit or I can't wear that you can wear that But I can't wear that it's like What do you do?
How do you respond? Um, what has, like, what has worked for you since you've kind of gone through this work and those situations?
stephanie: So I have, I think I have my closest friend. Um, she I think of her as thinner than I am. She would say I'm fitter. So, you know, and that's the other thing. My why has changed. So we can get to that in a minute. Cause it's not just about looks, right? It's about health. And I want to be [00:35:00] healthier for longer.
So when I want to be 80, taking grandkids in the ocean and swimming, I want to be Skiing down a mountain at that age. Right. So if I want to do that, the lifting and you talk a lot about that, but with this one friend, she's self aware enough that I was able, and I'm super close with her. We've been friends since eight.
Right. So I said to her, listen, when you put yourself down this way. It's really hard for me to listen to because I look at you and I think you look so great and it just, I'm trying to work on myself and not be as preoccupied because by the way, nobody wants to hear it, right? Like nobody liked it when I put myself down like that.
Like, nobody likes that. It's not interesting. And I told her that it was really hard for me to listen to because when she puts herself down, it makes me more preoccupied about how I look. And I'm really trying not to, to do that. And she says, you know what? I'm really glad that you told me. I won't do [00:36:00] that anymore.
Now she and I have that friendship and she has that emotional maturity that she can do that. And I knew that I could talk to her in that open, honest way. Not everybody can receive that message. And so I guess I would say some tricks would be like, Just, you can shut it down. Gosh, I really hate that you feel that way about yourself, you know, um, by the way, did you see the article and then you switch topics,
jordana: shoppings. Yes.
stephanie: you know, um, but I think that I haven't mastered that skill yet,
jordana: No, I, it's,
stephanie: that they have approach based on who you're with.
If you can really. Be close, but I will tell you that friend, her name is Jackie. And, um, she is one in a million because I would say most people can't respond like that, right?
jordana: yeah, yeah, it does. It does take emotional maturity and a willingness to kind of really look at your behavior. But I think what the response you said, like, it makes [00:37:00] me so sad to hear you talk about yourself that way, right? That's a, that's compassion. That's connection. It also kind of communicates that what you're doing. Is impacting other people, right? Because it does, whether it's a friend or a child, right? Or a parent, the way that we talk about ourselves, to your point, makes us think about ourselves, maybe in that context, and it just continues to, like, then we just kind of continue down the same path. We're stuck in the same cycle that we've been stuck in, which is just like. How gross we look, how terrible we look, what food we ate that was bad, and it just continues to perpetuate that. Um, so, yeah, I think that's a rea and then changing the subject and just moving on beyond it, but I think that's a really helpful and powerful way to respond that's not like, It's not awkward, you're not telling someone to stop doing it, you're not saying this makes me uncomfortable, right?
You're just like, it makes me really sad to hear you talk about yourself that way, which is in a way, to me, feels like [00:38:00] loving and caring and compassionate, um, and maybe makes them stop and think about, oh, like, why am I talking about myself that way, right? Even if it just opens up a little bit of space for, like, reflection and to think about what they're doing, that's because that's where the, that's where the opportunity for change is.
stephanie: Yeah. I've used that line. Like, I really hate you talking about my friend that way. Right. It doesn't always work. It doesn't
jordana: I changed the language. Yes. Um, so something you brought up, which I'd wanted to circle back to. So I'm glad you mentioned it was around this idea of kind of like fitness and health and I strength train and obviously have, you know, exercise has been part of your life for a long time, but I'd love to hear about kind of it.
Your relationship with exercise, why you do what you do, how it makes you feel, and sort of what role that has all played in this for you.
stephanie: Yeah, so I mean, growing up I played sports, and then, um, I think I probably really [00:39:00] got into it when I graduated college. I lived in Israel for a year, and I was volunteering, and I would just go for long walks, or I eventually started running, and then I moved to New York, and you know, there's a big, in New York, like, a scene where you're, you know, single, going to Equinox.
And I just loved it, right? Um, I felt good, uh, emotionally, and I felt like I had some nice muscles. Um, my body adapted pretty well after the first child, not as well after the second. And That's pretty typical from my understanding, but I don't know if my behavior changed, although maybe like when I was single, I worked out two and a half hours a day or something, which is, by the way, um, a disorder in and of itself, right?
I mean, that's just talks to the craziness of where I was. Always exercise a minimum of four days a week, just because I like it. It was always [00:40:00] part of my life. Even now, you know, I do it, but not all my exercise is at a gym, right? We're pretty sedentary culture. So I use it now it's evolved. Um, I started working with this trainer, Charles, who I'm totally obsessed with.
And I think getting the right trainer matters. Um, we do a lot with strength. So if I were doing things that you say, Oh, my back hurts, for example, or, uh, my hamstring is a problem. Well, maybe it's a problem because I'm over engaging my hamstrings because my glutes aren't strong enough, right? So in general, I fully believe that exercise is the best panacea will make you feel better.
You feel like shit, go for a walk outside. I promise you'll feel better. And I can't say that I always do that, but every time I do, I feel better. Right. So sometimes it's not about the motivation. It's just the consistency, just the consistency [00:41:00] matters more than the motivation. And so I don't really focus on food so much, but I do try to, um, lift.
And I follow a lot of your guidance when you talk about trying to do, you know, the heavier weights, I do it to prevent injury to get stronger. I still do the cardio, but I'm not as cardio obsessed. And by the way, if you're lifting weights the right way, you're getting your cardio, um, at the same time. So I just love it.
I don't necessarily do it with other people. I kind of do it myself this afternoon after this. I'm away right now and I'm going to go cross country skiing for two hours or all or something like that. And it's just great. I'm reading this book called Younger Next Year and I think it probably sums up where I am right now with exercise.
And by the way, if I could, um, work with Charles three days a week between schedules and finances, I would, right? There's nothing better than getting a good personal trainer. And by the way, [00:42:00] If you talk to these personal trainers, like I went to a gym and they were talking to me at my weight loss goals.
That's never a conversation I have with Charles. He's, and I know you've partnered with him and he only talks to me about mobility, strength, doing things in the correct form. That's what it's about. And even one day, like it's okay, a little messed up. I still only really wear dark colored. Cause I think that you can see my cellulite through them.
So not perfect. And one day I bought, I wore gray leggings to the workout pants and we're working on, he's like, Oh, you're wearing a color. And I said, well, you can see my cellulite. He's like, I don't care. I love the boldness. And do you see what I'm saying? Right. And that's a much more positive.
jordana: Yes.
stephanie: But the book I'm reading, which is called Younger Next Year, it's really designed for people in like the third chapter of their life, [00:43:00] meaning you've already learned for 25 years.
Now you've earned for 25, 30 years. And exercise is a new definition. I promise you when you're 80, I mean, I care for my 90 year old father. You want to be able to get up off the toilet so that you can live in your own home. It is a totally different. Why we talked about the pool, we talked about the skiing, but you know, I worry about especially the women in my lives where they're older and they don't exercise.
You need to trigger enough to break down the bad and build up the good because there's cellular renewal in your body. And whether it's the blood or your taste buds or whatever, it all, your body changes over time and you have to break down the goods. So I use, I have like three bulging discs in my cervical spine.
I found when I didn't work out, it made [00:44:00] everything worse. Versus it hurts, but then I go take this weightlifting class and maybe it was, I really needed to do the farmer's carry. And wow, that was amazing. I
jordana: Yeah. Strength training is so powerful in so many ways from the physiological standpoint of just building strength in your muscle and impacts bone density to the mental piece and body image to the pain science piece, which you just talked about with when you aren't exercising, the pain actually goes up and exercising helps kind of, you know, moderate that pain. quality of life piece, like, over time, I mean, the number of older adults that I know and that just shows up in, you know, in research and in data that can't get up and down off the floor, and like, that's become like this normalized thing, like, and then there's all the, oh, don't hurt yourself, don't pick that up, you might hurt yourself, and it's like, you're actually hurting yourself by not ever picking up heavy things, and it's this negative feedback loop that just, I mean, has created this cultural, systemic issue with older adults and, you know, [00:45:00] You know, it starts it's never too late to start strength training ever.
The earlier you start the better So the next best time to start if it wasn't yesterday is today, right? No matter how old you are It's never too late. But strength training is no question. One of the most important Activities and ways to spend time and things that need to be prioritized for our health and well being at every age So yeah
stephanie: mean, think about retirement, right? Do you want to go see the world? I mean, my dad's 90. When my niece and nephew had their B'nai Mitzvah, you know, a year ago, my mom and dad were up there dancing a storm, right? And so I literally texted him and I said, you better be doing your exercises so that you can dance at Charlotte, right?
That's what, that's who you want to be,
jordana: Yes, a thousand percent.
stephanie: right? So.
jordana: takes effort. It takes time and energy and attention. And it's, you know, so many people default to like, I don't have time [00:46:00] or I'm too stressed out or so many. We have a lot of reasons why we can't do things and we lose sight of the longer term impact of these things because we're so focused on like the instant gratification of the moment.
And it's always going to be easier for most. Most people, it's going to be easier to not exercise in the moment than it's going to be to exercise because it's going to take less energy and less effort to not do it. And it's about learning how to kind of move past that and start thinking about what's happening an hour from now.
How am I going to feel an hour from now if I don't exercise versus if I do exercise? And then a month and then six months and a year and ten years. But it's a, it's a shift. It's, I mean, this is like what behavior change really is. And I'm kind of going off on a bit of a tangent now. But, um. These conversations are just so important to have and to the extent that if you're listening and you have older adults in your life and you can support them and you can model the behavior yourself is huge as well.
Um, but yeah, strength training is everything.
stephanie: [00:47:00] Actually, I think you also did an episode. It's all connected. So you were just saying we're going off on a tangent. Not really, right? It's about retraining your neural pathways and you can do that. Right? Um, the thing that I'm working on now to retrain my neural pathway because.
jordana: hmm. Mm
stephanie: I'm a work in progress is my next step is to stop comparing myself versus who I used to be. I can't do all the things physically that I used to do. I can't run 10 miles anymore. Um, I. I'm not the size that I used to be. So I don't really compare. I mean, listen, I'm going to look around and I have friends of all different shapes and sizes. I don't compare myself to them. Right. I don't compare myself professionally.
I don't compare myself, how I look. I want good things for them. I'm not jealous of them. Who I compare myself to or against is who I used to be. Is when I see those pictures of me in the string bikini and I [00:48:00] didn't even I thought I was fat then I didn't even know and so I think that that's my the next ghost I want to slay my next rock if you will and it's going to take some time but that's what I'm looking to achieve
jordana: Mm hmm.
stephanie: um because aging is not voluntary it's a blessing by the way but how you age you can choose
jordana: Yes, yes, totally agree. Um, the one thing I, we didn't really talk about, which I'd love to spend just a couple minutes on without making this episode too long, is you mentioned a couple of times you have two daughters,
stephanie: Yes. Yes.
jordana: seventh grade and 10th grade.
stephanie: about it
jordana: Yes, is that right? That's right. Yeah. I'm like, I know seventh grade.
Um, and I would just, what, how, um, I'm trying to like formulate the question, what are you doing to help Okay. them grow up, I guess, with more skills and [00:49:00] a different relationship with food and their bodies than you grew up with, and that you live, you know, a good part of your adult life with.
stephanie: Uh, it's a good question. So, first of all, I think my mom did a pretty good job with that. She never put herself down. My parents never talked about foods being any which way. I mean, to me, I just want a good combination of nutritious and delicious, which is what I tell my kids. So, I do not, even when I did put myself down, I never put myself down in front of them. Uh, that's number one. I don't comment on other people's bodies in front of them.
jordana: Yes.
stephanie: I don't, there's a scale in my bathroom. They've never seen me step on the scale. Uh, I do talk about, so my two daughters, one has a much more athletic build. One has a very dainty build. I don't have different rules. You show your body, you love it through the foods you eat.
And I tell them all the time, it's a [00:50:00] combination of nutritious and delicious. If it's only nutritious. I'm sorry, but like you're missing out on a lot of fun stuff. And if it's only delicious, you're not going to be around long enough to enjoy everything. So those are some of the things I do. Um, I think also I sort of joke, maybe this isn't good.
I think you're not really supposed to talk about your own body. I guess I do a little bit where I sort of say to them, um, look if my ass was jiggling or something. It's just a fact. And I'm like, yeah, your dad likes a little jiggle, you know, it sounds like, you know, they roll their eyes. We are very, um, I don't know, body accepting in our home.
Today, girls wear very short shorts and to me, I also let them know you sort of wear clothes that make you feel good so that all of those are the things that I do. There are a [00:51:00] lot of things I could be better at, so I could probably make dinner and sit down as a family for dinner. I could be better at that.
But I, um, really, and my older daughter is like my favorite in how she eats because. We I don't restrict she knows I love dessert. I love love love dessert. I always have dessert in my house I have whatever they want. I'll buy all of it because Similar to alcohol right if they are exposed a little bit to it Then they're not gonna binge on it and I just say listen, it's no problem, right?
You it's just Um, so because of that, it's not forbidden. And so when I go back to my older daughter, I remember being in the city with her and we would go and she wanted, you know, I was like, let's go to the special place for ice cream or whatever afterwards. And she looked at the menu and she's like, Oh, does that good?
And I was like, yeah, it looks delicious. Yeah, go get it. So she got it. She had some and then she's sort of like, I'm done.[00:52:00]
jordana: I'm done. Yes.
stephanie: to be 15
jordana: the same.
stephanie: and have an ice. Most of the time, if I get ice cream, I don't stop. I just eat it till I'm done. Or if we went, there was another time we went to the theater and we had lunch, just the two of us and she loves cheesecake.
And I like it too. And it was a special occasion. So I said, well, why don't we, do you want to order dessert? She's like, well, I just want a little bit. I don't want it to be wasteful. You did a great episode on waste. Cause it's wasted either way. I said. What's the difference? Order the cheesecake. We're celebrating, you know, I don't even know if it was said we're celebrating.
I'm like, order the cheesecake, you'll eat what you want, and then we'll leave the rest over. And that's it. And because of that, she does that, right? I think my younger daughter could probably be better in terms of like the food repertoire, but I always tell my older daughter, I love how she does that because she has that ability that babies have where they're like, they're done.
It doesn't
jordana: You're done.
stephanie: Her carrots, they're done. And she's the same way. She's like, and I love that. I think it's amazing.
jordana: Yes, same. I mean, thank you for [00:53:00] sharing all that. I think it's super helpful for, for people listening and that I do the same with Ben. Like nothing is off limits. You want dessert, get dessert. There's snacks in the house. I pack a dessert. This is so funny. I pack a dessert in his lunch box every day.
And his friends make comments about the fact that he gets a dessert every day. Like, Oh my God, your mom packs you dessert every day. Like, that's so cool. Like, cause they're not getting dessert every day. And then his friends will come over to our house and they will raid. Our snacks and I have chips. I have candy.
I have sweets and they will binge it essentially. And I'm not surprised. It makes total sense because they're not getting it at home and. All parents are doing their best. So it's not a judgment. It's everyone is doing what they think is best for their kid. And also there's certain responses that a brain is going to have when we restrict things or their scarcity.
We want more of it. And I think that's one of the most powerful things we can do for kids is to, that's how they're going to learn their own innate hunger and fullness skills. Cause to your [00:54:00] point about babies, we are born with that as humans. It's part of evolution, but it's stripped away from us at a very young age.
Because of all these external things. Well, you didn't finish your vegetables. You can't have dessert. You have to eat four more bites. You didn't eat enough. So keep eating. Like, These things are well intentioned, but ultimately, harmful over time, and we lose that trust with ourselves. And so giving kids permission to have sweets and not labeling them as good or bad is so powerful.
Um, and it's, it's like, so cool to like see that happening. in action. And like, I do the same thing with Ben and it's awesome to watch. Like he'll go to, we'll go to the diner and he'll get a piece of cake and I'll have five bites and I'll be like, I'm done. And I'm like, that's fucking amazing.
stephanie: I yeah, it's
jordana: I wish every human being could do that.
And certainly for some people it's harder than others, but for a lot of people, it's very possible. We just have to learn the skills to how to do it. Oh my gosh, it's almost an hour. That went by
stephanie: talk [00:55:00] her. We can't wait.
jordana: We gotta keep going. Um, just thank you. Thank you so much. Like your transparency and your candor and it's just so greatly appreciated from me and from everyone listening.
It's just, this has been a lot of fun and I really just appreciate everything you shared.
stephanie: Well, thank you so much. I do also want to say I, aside from being on your podcast, like I do love your podcast. Um, I love your approach to health and wellness. And I think you are also a part of my journey, right? There were behaviors I needed to change and you are a part of that. And I just think that for people who are sort of out there that are thinking about it, You mentioned the word story.
The stories you tell yourself, they're just stories and they can be different stories. And so you have to start gravitating towards the energy and I gravitated to your energy and I've been all the better for it. So thank you.
jordana: Thank you.
stephanie: Okay.