episode 171: redefining what it means to be “in shape” with helene jafine
Today, I'm thrilled to bring you a conversation that's a little different but incredibly close to my heart. I recently had the opportunity to chat with Helene Jafine, a partner and coach at Girls Just Wanna Box, a boxing gym in Toronto, Canada.
This episode is candid, vulnerable and emotional as both Helene and I share a lot about our personal struggles with exercise and body image issues.
how does exercise improve body confidence?
Helene’s story resonated deeply with me, especially her insights on how boxing reshaped her relationship with her body and her approach to nutrition. It reinforced the importance of being present in our bodies, focusing on what they can do rather than how they appear.
Our conversation covers mental health, empowerment, and the often overlooked emotional benefits of physical activities like boxing.
Helene's experiences, along with the stories of the women she coaches, highlight the sport's role in fostering self-esteem and body confidence, challenging the narrow definitions of fitness and beauty that society often imposes.
This episode is more than just a talk about boxing. It's about the broader journey of self-acceptance and finding strength in places we might not traditionally look.
Listen to episode 170 for more candid conversations around body image and appearances.
I have 4 1:1 coaching spots open for new clients. If you have struggled with weight loss—losing and gaining, yo yo dieting, stress eating, binge eating—and you still aren’t happy with how you feel around food and in your body but don’t know another way to deal with it than to start another diet, schedule a consult before March 28 to talk about working together 1:1.
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00:00.18
jordanale
Hey, everyone welcome back to another episode of the diet diaries I don't know what number episode this is going to be so I'm going to leave that out for today. Um I'm here with a guest It's been a while since we've had a guest and I'm super excited. Um today I'm here with heleen jaffine she is. Ah, the part a partner and coach at girls just want a box based in Toronto canada and Helene reached out to me. Um, like we didn't know each other and we just met because of like the internet which is really cool and we had a conversation a couple weeks ago and we're like definitely let's talk on the podcast. Um. Helene um is a partner and coach at this boxing gym and was sharing with me like how transformative the sport of boxing has been for her in terms of her relationship with food and body image and I'm like yes this is amazing. Let's talk about this? Um, so that's. Kind of what we're going to be talking about today and as always like we'll get into all kinds of other things like wherever you know wherever kind of the conversation takes us but I just wanted to um, kind of introduce her and I'm going to hands it over to heleen. So yeah, just let us know a little bit about yourself.
01:13.42
jordanale
Why you started the gym like what that's all about, um you know anything will kind of dive into your history and then sort of go from there.
01:20.54
Helene Jafine
Sure. So yeah, like you said ah I started as a partner with groceryana box in 18 prior to that and starting my boxing journey in 2012 I was not into boxing I never watched the sport.
01:29.99
jordanale
Okay.
01:36.34
Helene Jafine
I couldn't tell you anything about it I couldn't you know other than maybe Mike Tyson just or Muhammad Ali ah it was never really in my world and it was only when I was in the Uk and I was I ended up working at a boxing gym there and that's how I was even introduced to the sport. And I guess to say the reason why I started there is because I was living there I wasn't meeting anyone and the gym is a very social place to meet people to connect, especially there's usually a common interest. Ah you know you're you're trying to achieve some sort of health goal. Whether that be. Weight gain weight loss muscle gain even just to create some some healthy habits and so when I was working there I started seeing ah all these women and men come in through through the gym and training and you could really see the transformation both inside and out through boxing. And it was only until a friend of mine who ended up getting her coaching license and and told me to to join one of the classes where I really just understood where the passion came from from all the members leaving the gym as I was standing at reception or doing the sales tours. And I said I was like I get this now and that was when something that I had kind of shared with you earlier was so I have Ocd and it typically tends to be with germs and contamination. However, there are lots of other subtypes that I fall into and.
03:11.88
Helene Jafine
It ended up really being an alternate form of therapy from talk Therapy Medication X Y Z and so it was a little bit of a dual purpose. So I was fulfilling a physical health goal. Let's say by getting into the gym and and doing some ah strength through boxing as well as the cardio aspect.
03:24.93
jordanale
Um.
03:30.89
Helene Jafine
But then I was also really able to help balance a little bit of my Ocd boxing is such a focus-based sport that you don't have time to think about anything else other than the twenty things that you're trying to accomplish while throwing a combination defending.
03:37.81
jordanale
Home.
03:45.13
jordanale
Yes. Yeah.
03:50.51
Helene Jafine
Doing both and so I Just really found it as a great way to calm my brain from and and I would even say this regardless of whether you have O Cd or not everyone's going through something in life and boxing I even know from from our women that we coach they say like it's a great.
03:55.40
jordanale
Yes.
04:01.45
jordanale
Yes, yes.
04:09.46
Helene Jafine
1 hour for our for example, our classes are an hour escape right? So they're not thinking about their kids or their partners or their friends or their work drama or you know the laundry list of things they have to do after the class or the things that they you know didn't accomplish today or whatever that is. It's.
04:19.69
jordanale
Um.
04:28.27
Helene Jafine
Such a focus base sport that kind of everything else in the outside world all just shuts down for for that period of time. So it's been transformative you know in that sense for me and even for for our clients that we see and.
04:33.60
jordanale
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
04:46.80
Helene Jafine
Um I don't know if you want me to even you know, go right to to the body image stuff. Sure.
04:49.55
jordanale
Yeah,, let me I just want to like pause you there. Um because I think thank you for sharing that like that's you know so much kind of like personal like you know, intimate details about you know your mental health I Think that's so helpful for people to hear. Um and I think even in the context. Outside of I mean obviously exercise has so many benefits for just like general mental. Well-being like overall um, and as I was listening to you talking about like how focused you are and how you can only pay attention to like the combination you're doing or what where your feet need to be or how you're moving and I was thinking about like so much of the work that. I help people that we do around like body images around like getting out of your head and getting into your body right? So that you're not thinking about like well you know what are my arms look like when they're doing this and like what does my belly look like and how does it look in the mirror and it's like the only thing that you are able to pay attention to. Is how you're moving your body and how you feel when you're moving your body and that so it's so powerful and it's such an important like there's like so many benefits right now. Just there's the physical piece of like the strength and the fitness and then there's the mental health piece and then there's you know. The body image piece which is like mental and emotional and so it's just so like amazing to hear you like articulate it in that way. Um, and you know and I'd love to hear more and where I don't know where you were going to go but you can keep going I'd Also love to hear more like.
06:13.80
jordanale
About how this was different for you from maybe other forms of exercise that you'd done in the past did you feel that did you not feel that like it sounds like this was pretty like revolutionary for you.
06:24.20
Helene Jafine
Yeah, so in in the past. So I did gymnastics as a young girl kind of growing up and ah, very much So ah, weight based sport and very ah size based and very look. You know there was a certain type of look.
06:36.70
jordanale
Um, yeah.
06:39.64
jordanale
Yeah.
06:41.65
Helene Jafine
And just to to kind of share a funny story was I was with a competitive gymnastics gym that I always remind people of we were if you've seen the movie dodgeball. We were the vince vaughn group. We showed up to competition.
06:58.75
jordanale
Um, okay.
07:01.50
Helene Jafine
Not in uniform we all had different attires none of us had our hair done None of us had makeup on all the other teams showed up one suit that everyone was wearing they all had their hair done the exact same way. They had full makeup like almost like the ah turs and tiaras and we always performed well.
07:11.39
jordanale
Dip out. Yes.
07:19.17
jordanale
Um, earth.
07:21.40
Helene Jafine
Because that's what we did but we never if you want to say looked the part and so it was It was always very interesting because we would show up and we would look very very much so on the outside.
07:22.33
jordanale
Yeah, with the part. Yes, exactly what I'm thinking.
07:36.50
Helene Jafine
We did not look like we belonged. But then we performed well and people were very surprised because I guess they didn't think that because we didn't have the mold of of everyone else and so I guess that's kind of where like my I guess my sport journey and where that kind of started and.
07:36.41
jordanale
Ah.
07:52.11
Helene Jafine
It was very on brand for me I've never been that style of girl I can still barely do my makeup. Ah so it's it's transitioned to my adulthood but then ah so in that sport it wasn't I think you know it's still very focus based. But because there was such a big aspect on the looks I feel like there and again you're being Judged. They're watching every move that you do I don't think I had that same response in the sense that I was able to laser focus I think I was.
08:15.31
jordanale
Her.
08:24.77
Helene Jafine
Half focused on my performance but then also half focused on making it look good and you know winning winning over the judges I transitioned into field hockey and that was very different that was a team sport and the big people pleaser.
08:29.49
jordanale
Are.
08:41.82
Helene Jafine
And as a team sport I never wanted to let the team down. So I think I was so focused on that aspect again I wasn't able to zone out. Let's say as I kind of could with with boxing and then my other form of exercise or sport was running.
08:46.40
jordanale
Yeah.
08:58.59
jordanale
Okay.
09:00.53
Helene Jafine
And for me I think I can zone out but if it's a longer run of let's say like a half marathon or a marathon pace. It kind of does I feel like it goes in and out through focus and no focus or focus and then thinking about whatever it is that you're thinking about so I've had.
09:13.12
jordanale
Right? right.
09:20.29
Helene Jafine
I Guess a little bit of both but boxing I think has been the only one where I could really zone out and stay focused on on that task or that you know class.
09:30.50
jordanale
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like I totally hear what you were saying about the gymnastics like there's an a. There's a look.. There's an aesthetic. That's such a big part of it and I was not I literally as an a as a kid couldn't do a cartwheel silk count Do a cartwheel. Um, but right with boxing. It's just that's not. Part of it at all right. It's about you know the movement and the agility and the skills and and like and then the mental toughness piece of it. Um, So what? yeah.
09:55.53
Helene Jafine
And like just to chime in just or don't mean to interrupt but to chime in 1 thing that's very interesting about boxing is that that's different to a sport like gymnastics or I almost even transitioned into ballet again which has that very similar.
10:09.90
jordanale
Are.
10:12.58
Helene Jafine
Look and size body type is boxing has I've spoken to so many people I Want to say it is the most inclusive sport around because it does have anything from minimum weight all the way up to super heavyweight and so.
10:27.39
jordanale
Her.
10:31.29
Helene Jafine
Regardless of your size you can still participate in the sport as opposed to you don't have to fit you do have to fit into a weight category but there are loads of options of weight categories. So in that sense It is very inclusive.
10:33.10
jordanale
Okay.
10:39.66
jordanale
Um, me yes.
10:46.85
Helene Jafine
You know it does have to be a certain weight so that it is ah evenly matched for for competition but you don't necessarily have to be size X to participate in the sport or you know drop down to or gain weight. You know what mean there? ah.
10:50.12
jordanale
Right.
10:57.47
jordanale
Right.
11:02.81
jordanale
You can be where you're at and be able to participate and do this without having to change anything about yourself. Yeah, so can you talk a little bit more right because I think like when a lot of people who listen here boxing like obviously but understand the sport of boxing. So.
11:06.52
Helene Jafine
Exactly exactly.
11:21.88
jordanale
And but then there's also like kickboxing classes and bag classes. So can you talk a little bit more about like what your gym is what your classes are like like what and how the sport has you know in what way you've kind of participated amongst like all these different ways that people might sort of think about boxing beyond like the. Or maybe I guess in addition to like the traditional like quote unquote like Mike Tyson boxing
11:43.28
Helene Jafine
Yeah, so I started as I always say for for fun and with groce stores want a box. We tend to say groceries want a box for fun and gro just want to box for real and so when we say for fun.
11:59.73
jordanale
Are.
12:01.65
Helene Jafine
We mean for fitness for their own physical activity for and again for fun. So it's not necessarily for the competitive side of things and then when we say for real whether that be competitively as an amateur or competitively as a professional.
12:19.80
jordanale
Got it.
12:21.20
Helene Jafine
There are 2 different options in that sense. So I started for fun and for fitness and for really just to do a different form of Cardio. So I had done running for years and this was a very different form of cardio very a much more intense There's also a self-defense. Ah. You know, aspect to it as well too that I think a lot of women tend to gravitate towards there are you know again, boxing fitness classes that a lot of people will participate in There are also competitive classes which again could include partner work. We'll add more defense and footwork drills because that is something that they're working towards and so like you had mentioned earlier I'm a partner of the gym Christina is the owner and founder and what she found years ago was that there was a gap in the market between. The women that wanted girls and women I should say that wanted to box for fun and box for real but there wasn't a happy medium for the women that wanted a box for fun but not compete. To not provide them with the technique and the tools to learn the real sport of boxing and so that's kind of what we do differently is whether you want to box for fun or for real we coach in the same way now if you want to box for real.
13:34.35
jordanale
Ah.
13:37.28
jordanale
Got it.
13:46.15
jordanale
Um, got it.
13:51.18
Helene Jafine
You know we do There is extra work that's done on top of that and there is sparring that they will do and partner drills that they will do but any woman or girl that wants to come in and learn will teach them the techniques because one it does provide more of a full body strength and conditioning workout. As opposed to a boxer size class which is a bit more cardio based and then we also it also provides that mental aspect too right? So We really want to provide these girls and women with the full range of physical and mental benefits from boxing.
14:10.68
jordanale
Um, yeah, yes.
14:27.45
jordanale
The.
14:29.54
Helene Jafine
And really, that's done through the technique whether they want to compete or not is totally fine. They don't have to however something that I did was I started for fun I didn't care about the technique and then when I had transitioned into wanting to compete I had some bad habits that I need to unlearn.
14:33.89
jordanale
Yeah, yeah.
14:47.77
Helene Jafine
So there was also that ah so there there was a few years of me trying to you know because I didn't let's say quote unquote care about the technique at the beginning I said I don't need to. It's fine I'm never going to compete and then you know five years later I was interested in competing.
14:55.79
jordanale
Right.
15:04.46
Helene Jafine
And I needed to to unlearn some bad habits because if I took that in the ring then that may or may not have bode Well for for my performance. So.
15:06.77
jordanale
Right? right? What has it been like to compete like so you're boxing against other women like 1 on 1 like in a ring situation. What I like.
15:17.13
Helene Jafine
Correct. Yeah, so it was very surreal I will say I'll never forget the way I work is I like to practice and I like to get as much information as I can so I asked my coach to provide a like pre-training camp.
15:34.75
jordanale
Where.
15:36.67
Helene Jafine
To the real things so that I could like really mentally get myself involved and just understand it a bit more and I'll be honest I didn't hate and it didn't hurt as much to get hit as I thought it was going to be I think like a lot of things we have this perceived notion of the pain and the the tolerance and that and that.
15:48.51
jordanale
Okay.
15:56.47
Helene Jafine
Threshold of what you're going to and don't get me wrong I do I don't love it. Ah, but I also didn't it didn't hurt me or it didn't feel as bad as it was going to and I will say the thrill of competing and going through that whole process.
16:04.30
jordanale
Okay.
16:13.63
Helene Jafine
We've taken a lot of women through charity boxing events and everyone has always said male or female that we've worked with it's one of the hardest things that they will ever do. But after doing that you can almost take on anything like nothing feels as hard.
16:23.56
jordanale
Yes.
16:30.31
jordanale
Um, yeah, and what he like what? so I'm curious to hear about like whether it's for you or like the women like your clients that come to the gym like what role has that played or like where.
16:32.20
Helene Jafine
As that did so.
16:47.55
jordanale
Trying to think about how I want to form this question because it's probably more than 1 question. Um, let me let me let me come at it from this angle. So a lot of women like when they go to a gym to work out are coming in for like weight loss or aesthetic goals right? to look a certain way so you know.
17:00.94
Helene Jafine
Correct.
17:05.39
jordanale
Is that the case for the women that are coming in is that something you guys work On. Do people's goals change over time or are you attracting like kind of like a whole different set of clientele with different goals like where does that How does that kind of fit in for you and I'm just curious to learn about that right? because that's like we think. Workout and especially boxing I think you think of boxing as a sport where people get like forgive me for using this word like ripped like really like defined muscles and really quote in shape and there's lots of like what does that actually mean, um, right? So like what you know?? What's the whole dynamic in terms of like weight loss and. Looking a certain way. How does that kind of fit in for you guys or not at all. But.
17:42.30
Helene Jafine
Sure I'm gonna tackle that 2 angles. So we also have a teen class and I will say it is very loose with teen because we have a girl as young as 7 so she doesn't necessarily fall into a teen range but her her sister is is 12 and so.
17:52.72
jordanale
Okay, that's awesome. Yeah.
18:00.90
Helene Jafine
Their their parents asked if we could and I said no problem. You know it's a bit of a different ah noticing that that age difference is very different but we make it work and so it's very interesting with the parents that are getting their teens into is it tends to be a bit more with building their self-confidence.
18:02.60
jordanale
Yeah.
18:09.80
jordanale
Um, yeah.
18:18.48
jordanale
Okay.
18:20.71
Helene Jafine
Ah, through boxing. So obviously there is a physical element. They're they're able to have a workout in but I think they are. They're very understanding of the fact that being strong whether that be as a teenager or as an adult builds self-confidence and you know.
18:34.24
jordanale
Um, my.
18:38.60
Helene Jafine
As well too at the age of 7 or at the age of 12 a lot of gyms won't allow them to go and work out. Let's say in the wait room or things like that so they're doing various sporting activities and I would say a lot of the the young girls that come in is for either bullying at school building self-confience. And or just finding a sport for them. They've tried soccer. They've tried tennis. They've tried gymnastics. Whatever it is that they've tried and they're just kind of still bopping around to figure out what's going to be their sport that they want to continue for Let's say a few years so that would be our teen side.
18:58.35
jordanale
Have.
19:16.10
Helene Jafine
I would say our adult women tend to come in for. They have seen the as you say ripped and shredded boxer bodies. So they'll see that as an aesthetic look that they're looking to achieve they also I think maybe have come from we again we have kind of.
19:20.60
jordanale
Are that.
19:35.93
Helene Jafine
I'm going to go with kind of 3 subtypes 1 They've done an athletic sport growing up and they haven't you know they haven't done that anymore. They're looking for something new, but maybe to complement what they used to do and then we also just have women that are.
19:39.30
jordanale
Okay.
19:52.23
Helene Jafine
Tired of doing their own thing. They want to come in again. They want to have like you tell me what to do I'll do it for the hour and then I get to go home and and you know they they don't want to lift weights they don't have a program they they kind of don't really know where to start or what to do.
19:59.91
jordanale
Um, yeah.
20:11.61
Helene Jafine
And so they figure a group class is a good opportunity for them to come in learn something new, get their workout in and because we we talk about technique and the benefits of the strength training that you get from that plus the cardio conditioning.
20:28.55
jordanale
Um.
20:28.69
Helene Jafine
Kind of ah the best. Let's say bang for your buck in terms of getting both as opposed to having to do a strength workout and a cardio. Maybe every other day or the same day and trying to fit that into you know everyone's work schedules which are already quite quite busy.
20:34.40
jordanale
Yes, right.
20:42.26
jordanale
Right? So it sounds like you're focusing not really on aesthetics but more on like the physical and that the mental component of it and and I love what you talked about like it's amazing that you have a teen class and that god bless those parents who sent their seven year old
20:50.81
Helene Jafine
Correct.
20:59.63
Helene Jafine
It.
21:00.88
jordanale
Daughter like I That's amazing. Um, right? because there's so many skills that girls can learn at that age that will set them up for life. Um, and it's just yeah, like it's just so interesting to hear like all the different components of boxing in a way that I think is maybe.
21:19.98
jordanale
Different than other sports right? because you're one on one and right and you're defending yourself and it's so technical. But so athletic at the same time There's so many different skills. Um that it seems like the kind of thing where even if someone comes in for aesthetic reasons and that's fine if people have those goals. Then they also get all these other amazing benefits on top of it where maybe like you know because we can't really control those aesthetic results right? Some people are genetically predisposed to have a 6 pack and others are not and and that applies to so many different things but it's like you know you might come in saying oh I want to look like like this.
21:46.56
Helene Jafine
Then.
21:54.86
jordanale
And by this I Just mean like whatever idealized image you have and who knows whether or not that's actually going to happen but all these other things are actually within your control right? developing your skills and building more of that mental capacity that is all stuff that you can control And. Can continue to put effort in and know that you're going to get this amazing benefit on the other side.
22:13.68
Helene Jafine
Yeah, and I also think something that I didn't mention earlier but was that we have a lot of women you know and I'm sure you've had the same thing in your business and the industry as well is where they you know they may have come in for fat loss or weight loss.
22:28.77
jordanale
Um, right.
22:30.88
Helene Jafine
But then they realized that they're a lot stronger than they thought they were and and that's 1 thing that's again, super beneficial about boxing and 1 of the reasons why I liked it so much is that for anyone at home. They can't really see but I've always said like have very like spaghetty arms and I've I've just I'm quite like a lanky kind of. Kind of person and so I've never really felt strong until I was boxing with whatever weight that I have whereas with strength training. You have to build you build muscle and then you become quote unquote strong because you're adding more weight whereas with boxing. You're strong wherever you're at right now you just have to.
22:54.50
jordanale
Um.
23:00.10
jordanale
Right.
23:07.31
Helene Jafine
Use the muscles properly and use your full body into into your combinations your punches but we find a lot of women will come in for that aesthetics. But then turn to I like this I feel strong I Want to get stronger.
23:12.34
jordanale
Um, yeah.
23:19.00
jordanale
Yeah, yes, yeah, and that's awesome and that plays such a huge role in like body image and in building your self worth on something that's not related to like your appearance and what you look like so that that feeling of like self-efficacy and capacity and strength.
23:25.32
Helene Jafine
Yes.
23:37.53
jordanale
Is just I mean there's it's amazing like there's nothing that can replicate that and it's so I think maybe underestimated or underrated in terms of you know how important that is for people's well-being and for feeling like comfortable in their own skin.
23:53.90
Helene Jafine
Agreed Yeah, it's It's one of those things and you can tell someone this is going to help you with this this this but I'm as I'm sure you've learned you know again with with nutrition and eating.
24:03.14
jordanale
Um, okay.
24:07.14
Helene Jafine
They have to figure that out for themselves. They have to their brain has to make that transition and that switch over and it sometimes takes a lot longer for some of the the women that even you know that we have as well too and and and I'm sure you you know you can say the same as well is that.
24:07.56
jordanale
Yeah. Ha.
24:19.52
jordanale
Yeah.
24:26.44
jordanale
Um, yeah.
24:26.64
Helene Jafine
You have to wait for them and it it I was working with 1 of my clients the other day and she goes I know you've said this to me so many times but it's just clicked now and I'm like you know what? that's fine. That's fine.
24:33.81
jordanale
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it takes so much time like we want these like instant results and instant like aha moments but our brains have been wired to think about ourselves and an exercise in our bodies in a certain way like for that's why it's so amazing that you have. Kids coming in because they can we can like intercept that wiring that's happening and start to rewire it a different way but like for adult women you're looking at decades of thinking about all this in a certain way and it just takes so much time and so much repetition and so much support and accountability and consistency in all of these things to really. Make those changes. It's just like it's a long game for sure. It's not like a you know four week or six week oh like I'm a new person like it takes time and you know I think so many workouts are like a oh and four week transformation like it's just not. You know it's this is a longer term investment in yourself in like physically and mentally.
25:30.87
Helene Jafine
And you could start with that like I don't think that you know I don't think that those are necessarily bad. However I will say what can be really difficult on the mental is if you don't see the changes that you were expecting to see in the four weeks
25:43.42
jordanale
Right? right? right.
25:48.37
Helene Jafine
Then that can be really detrimental because 1 you know again, if it works out well then it hopefully maybe can propel you to continue on which is what you want you want lifestyle long-term. However, it can also work the opposite way where if you don't get the results that you were you know, guaranteed or looking for.
25:55.13
jordanale
Or yes.
26:06.40
Helene Jafine
Or achieving and I can say that up from from personal you know, use as well. I've've I've done so many different programs and you know I didn't get the same results as other people because their bodies are different. Their genetics are different. There's so many different factors that you know that come into play that we I don't know if we just tune out.
26:16.19
jordanale
X.
26:26.21
Helene Jafine
Or don't want to listen to but you know those those can be helpful in propelling a lifestyle but they can also be super detrimental in terms of getting the results you wanted and also depending on some of them. they're not healthy they're they're done you know especially a four week one that would be way too short to create to create a change but a twelve week one you're kind of like okay there's there's at least ah a starting point to to building.
26:47.18
jordanale
Yeah.
26:57.13
jordanale
Oh yeah I mean three months is a lot different than a month um and it's all yeah to your point. There's so much nuance around things like that like what's the language around it. What are the objectives. What are the expectations like and I love that you just said like so much like is dependent on. Genetics and forget even other lifestyle things right? like certain certain people's bodies are able to make changes in adaptations and look a certain way and other people's bodies are able to look a different way and it's like none of it's good or bad. It just goes back to this like but we've only ever seen one body represented like we even like. Both of us use the language and I used it first like around like like a ripped look from boxing right? So we have like this pretty like this is what a boxer looks like well I mean I would bet money that most of the women in your gym. Don't like quote look like that but they're still boxers right? They can still like embody that identity and those values and.
27:33.28
Helene Jafine
Yeah.
27:48.83
jordanale
You know all of like that that goes along with that. It's like the the physical look or the physical transformation not in terms of strength but in terms of like aesthetics is like 1 piece of that and arguably like the least I mean the one you have the least control over for sure and also like the least you know. Valuable or meaningful like whatever the right word is.
28:11.23
Helene Jafine
Yeah, and I can I can share a story I remember it was one of the first sos when I had just moved back from the Uk and I had been in boxing and a friend of mine that I was working at a gym with he had entered a um.
28:26.55
Helene Jafine
It was ah not a charity boxing event but a white collar boxing event and I went to it and I had gone with a friend and we had kind of just decided like okay, we're going to bet a friendly bet on you know who's going to win is going to be red or is it going to be blue as they came out just based on what we saw. Um, there was no fight cards or anything like that and I'll never forget. There were 2 it was 2 male fighters and 1 came out and he was a bit shorter but just you know as we've been saying this whole time ripped Jack just shredded and I was like oh I'm going with that.
28:59.94
jordanale
Yeah, yeah, ah.
29:02.44
Helene Jafine
I'm going with that guy I haven't even seen the other guy but I'm definitely going with him and the other guy came out taller quote again I'm going to go quote unquote out of shape looking had a bit of a bit of a belly and I'm pretty sure first round.
29:13.37
jordanale
Um, that.
29:21.23
Helene Jafine
The other guy was struggling and because boxing there's 2 things. 1 boxing is mental so if the other guy was mentally not prepared for this fight. There's a good chance. He was going to lose just based off that not even throwing any punches just based off that and.
29:35.53
jordanale
The.
29:38.44
Helene Jafine
The you know the quote unquote at a shape guy one because he was able to first of all, again, it's it's all very calculated. It's all very timely and I feel like the other guy probably spent too much time with the strength and the core workouts that I don't think he spent enough time on the.
29:52.41
jordanale
The head. Yeah.
29:57.98
Helene Jafine
Basics of boxing and and that's where you lose it. But again very visually. It was you know very you know? and and I I kind of shook my head after because I was like that you know that didn't make sense. But now that I've been in it and I understand the game you know now I would have said very.
30:10.94
jordanale
Yeah, yeah.
30:15.90
Helene Jafine
Very much so the opposite but you know it's It's very interesting how our brains again just based off looks because of years of ah crap that we've been listening to and hearing and saying ah you know that's that's where our brains go.
30:24.22
jordanale
Yeah, conditioning. Yes.
30:31.60
jordanale
Yeah, absolutely right? And I think that I love that you shared that story because it just like reminds us to like notice those assumptions and start to question them and why do I think that right? So there's like the kind of the cognitive piece. But then also just a reminder that like you know we both use this language like in shape or add of shape like what does that even mean. Right? Like you can be in shape and not look what people have told you in shape looks like right and also on the flip side like you can look I think someone can have a 6 pack and look a certain way and also not be strong. Not have good cardiovascular fitness right? like it's not It's.
30:56.61
Helene Jafine
Correct.
31:09.79
jordanale
The the physical appearance is not representative of what's happening like on the inside right? and there's a bigger conversation around here that around like like body size and shape in general right? where people make assumptions that someone in a bigger body is out of shape and unhealthy and people automatically make assumptions that someone in a smaller body. Is in shape and healthy and that's just like not true like clinically proven like not true. Um, and so it's just so important to have these conversations to create awareness around like the way our brains think which is wired and programmed and so we can't just.
31:30.80
Helene Jafine
Correct.
31:44.87
jordanale
Shut that off, but we can start to like notice those thoughts and then question them be like why do I think that and so like here's like a great example, the story you shared where like your those were like your assumptions your automatic thoughts and then they were like disproven and it's just.
31:47.74
Helene Jafine
Yes.
31:55.65
Helene Jafine
Yeah.
31:58.97
jordanale
This is the stuff that I think we need to be talking about to create like this tide change like this shift in the beliefs we have around bodies and what we need to look like and what we want to look like and what we do and what we give up in order to look that way whereas. Can we shift the focus to so much of what you talked about today with the boxing like the strength and the mental toughness and the capacity and the confidence and all of that and then whatever the physical aesthetic outcome is it is but you've now cultivated and developed all of these amazing qualities and skills. Which are independent of like what you look like.
32:37.70
Helene Jafine
Yeah, and and know what's interesting saying about you know in shape and not in shape I came from a class last Thursday and I had a woman. She's like oh I'm I'm had a shape and I said well first of all I'll say two things I said 1 there's. You know quote unquote regular in shape being able to walk upstairs without huffing and puffing I'll use that kind of as an example and then I said but then there's also boxing in shape and I said those are 2 very different things I said for you to be in physical boxing shape.
32:55.25
jordanale
There.
33:12.87
Helene Jafine
You know it's it's going to be way more than a few weeks worth of classes. You know, also coming once a week so I said I was like there's a very big difference and I said you will get there. It's just going to take time and I think there's ah, there's a you know a lot of women will come in. Oh I'm not in shape and.
33:15.39
jordanale
Okay.
33:23.13
jordanale
And fear.
33:30.11
jordanale
Me right.
33:30.64
Helene Jafine
Would say that's what we're here for that's what we are we you know that's what that's what we're here to help you with you. Don't need to you know I've worked in so many gyms where they get the free pt session at the beginning and everyone always says oh I'll wait until I'm in shape and I said no, that's that's the that is the point of the trainer they are there.
33:42.27
jordanale
Right? But the white right now.
33:49.50
Helene Jafine
To help you again. You don't have to sign on with them but they are help they're there to help guide you correct is yeah and I think you know something that I.
33:54.32
jordanale
Yes, it's like waiting to go to yoga until you're flexible like no, the whole point is to like you don't have to be able to touch your toes to go to yoga. Yeah.
34:06.82
Helene Jafine
I know I haven't worked with you kind of on on the nutrition side. But I think something that's really interesting with you know the women that come into boxing is that they start to learn that they actually need to eat a little bit more than they're eating because they're either. They're tired during the workout they have to stop the workout or they're you know starving after.
34:15.75
jordanale
Okay.
34:23.89
jordanale
Yes, yes.
34:26.77
Helene Jafine
You know? and so it's trying to find first of all for everyone. It's going to be very different trying to find what to eat before right? How long depending on you know and I feel like that's a little bit more trial and error based on the person. Some people can handle a little bit more food before some people are like just a banana and that's it. Um.
34:38.47
jordanale
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:45.70
Helene Jafine
And then again it depends is like a half hour is it an hour is it 2 hours based on based on what you're eating. But I found for me that if I didn't eat enough my training performance wasn't as good and I could I could feel that I could I I knew I wasn't perform well.
34:50.65
jordanale
Um I.
34:56.90
jordanale
Oh yeah.
35:02.75
Helene Jafine
And then obviously you know depending on the scenario you know I was you know a few weeks out from a fight I had to look good I had to show my my coach that I was ready and you know, but then again you are in a weight base sport. So I was focused on my weight.
35:10.11
jordanale
Yes.
35:15.51
jordanale
Yeah.
35:19.47
Helene Jafine
Because I needed to be in a certain weight category and so I think that you know there is good. Not to say good and bad I know sometimes a lot of people don't like hearing that but there's there's good points about that in the sense that boxing really helps to develop a relationship with food. Where you do need to eat more than the quote unquote twelve hundred calories a day that you know we were all kind of on for years and some might still be on and I learned that I wasn't able to do my runs and do my boxing workout and or my strength based off that it just wasn't.
35:43.96
jordanale
Um, yeah, yeah.
35:56.48
Helene Jafine
I wasn't performing well I wasn't sleeping well I was angry I was irritable like um and and I don't know I've listened to a few of your podcasts and I don't know if anyone had this I lost my period for 2 years and from yeah from not eating enough and overexercising right? so.
36:08.75
jordanale
From not eating enough. Yes, that's very come on. Yeah yeah, yes, yes.
36:16.11
Helene Jafine
Combination was just a fire and I remember at first being like this is a blessing this is amazing. This is awesome and then I believe about 6 to eight months in I realized that scientifically my body is.
36:22.13
jordanale
Right? I don't get my period. Awesome! yeah.
36:34.97
jordanale
Um, right right.
36:35.88
Helene Jafine
Not responding to something and I remember I went to my doctor and she said gain some weight she's like just she's like simple as that she's like gain some weight and then let's see let's see where you get to and so when I had my first fight I competed at 26
36:42.32
jordanale
Um, yeah.
36:54.15
Helene Jafine
And I have realized that that is way too low for for my size and way too low for me to get to so I do want to compete again. Hopefully this year and I realize that now my my lowest that I can be is is one thirty and there are options. There are options I you know.
37:05.61
jordanale
Um, okay.
37:12.56
Helene Jafine
At the time because I was at one thirty I thought oh £5 is is not difficult and it isn't but it also depends on the timeframe that you have women are way different from men in terms of cutting weight. Ah, and so you know for a lot of male coaches. They're like oh £5 £10 easy not for a female.
37:25.95
jordanale
Nuneth.
37:32.22
Helene Jafine
Right? We have lots of other hormones and other things that we need to deal with that that the males don't have to. They don't write.
37:36.65
jordanale
Right? right? And in this case, you're talking about like gaining weight right? be able to be you know, performing in a class where you're able to eat more food to sustain like the energy output and and the training. Um yes.
37:49.59
Helene Jafine
And be strong right? Like you know at the end of the day me being a one twenty five just because I got there great but me being at a level where I couldn't perform as well as I could at one thirty you know when when there is that option just doesn't you know it was my first one so it kind of.
37:53.47
jordanale
Yes.
38:00.00
jordanale
Um, right right? right? yeah.
38:09.16
Helene Jafine
A lot of people say you want to be at the lower one so you can be quicker but at the end of the day if I'm not strong. It really doesn't matter if I'm quick.
38:13.57
jordanale
Right? Exactly I think that gets like toward to the conversation around like I always talk about like best weight versus goal weight right? people always like when they want to lose weight they have this goal weight or they have a number that they used to weigh or they think that they're going to look a certain way. But what.
38:20.33
Helene Jafine
A.
38:30.22
jordanale
90% of the time happens along the way is that there are so many mental and emotional and physical sacrifices that are made to get there that that you are. It's it's not healthy, right? You may be eating a lot of quote like healthy food but the way the way you're eating it how you're eating it Why you're eating it. The amount you're eating it in. Is not healthy, right? So it's looking at what is really like my best weight that's going to Support. You know the life I Want to live how I want to feel my mobility if I'm you know in a competitive sport like and I'm or I'm taking you know, really intense workout classes right? I have to be. In a body and eating in a way that's going to support that um and really like looking at in more of like this additive inclusive way versus like a restrictive kind of way I don't know that that necessarily makes sense some kind of just like thinking that through as I'm talking about it but like.
39:24.83
jordanale
What do I need to add what do I need to eat so I can do all the things that I want to do approaching it from that mindset versus like how little can I eat so I can get as small as I can get to look a certain way right? So thinking about it from more of like a performance. And not even performance Just what can I do? How can I feel how strong can I be what what can I do versus? how am I going to look. Um.
39:49.37
Helene Jafine
Yeah, and we've you know we've had conversations with whether it be our you know our women or we do once a month sparring where we bring girls from all over Ontario to come connect and and work with each other and you know one thing we're trying to change with all them is you know let's find a weight. Where you feel the strongest at and maybe that's where you're at right now. Maybe that's £5 less. Maybe that's £5 more but as opposed to their coaches saying I want you to get down to x because typically it's a down typically it's I'm not I'm not going to.
40:09.33
jordanale
Yes.
40:23.15
jordanale
Right.
40:26.89
Helene Jafine
Not going to say it's an up because typically it's not and so you know I had a conversation with a girl a few weeks ago I said you know where are you at right now and how do you feel because that's the most important you know if you feel like you have a bit of extra weight that you're moving around like on your runs you feel heavy then maybe it is maybe it is to come down a little bit.
40:27.67
jordanale
The.
40:37.42
jordanale
Um, and.
40:46.69
Helene Jafine
You know if you feel fine if you feel strong where you're at right now. Maybe this is your new fight weight class and I think that you know it might take some time to figure that out and that's okay, right? You know I learned again if you want to say the hard way that that weight was not for me and that's fine.
40:46.90
jordanale
Ah, her. Ah.
40:50.80
jordanale
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? right. Right? right? right.
41:04.82
Helene Jafine
I will try one thirty and I'll see if that's for me, maybe that's not as well too. Maybe that's like a middle. Maybe I need to be at one thirty five I don't know but I think there's a you know it's not a hard and fast One thirty one 32 or like you were saying.
41:12.71
jordanale
Um, yeah, well.
41:20.55
Helene Jafine
I know I've had weights in my head that I've wanted to be forever you know and because of where I've heard other people being at where it's because you know where where your parents were at at their you know at their slimmest. Ah I Even I'll jokingly say my my great aunt.
41:21.83
jordanale
Mr. Again.
41:31.24
jordanale
Right.
41:39.89
Helene Jafine
I'll never forget she lives in the states and she's been a size zero for as long as I can remember and she used to have a diet Pepsi a day that's it. That's it. Yeah no, that's it that was that was breakfast lunch dinner snack and you know I was thinking about it and I was like yeah this is where.
41:44.93
jordanale
Um.
41:47.39
jordanale
Oh okay, that was right? Okay, yeah. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, I.
41:58.42
Helene Jafine
Disordered eatinging comes from just hearing that right? and again it's funny because she lives so far away. But I heard that I heard that at one point and I heard she's a zy zero and I heard that she drinks diet Pepsi and whether that affected me or not like that I noticed it definitely not.
42:05.27
jordanale
Um, yeah, right? and then right so like.
42:16.10
Helene Jafine
Because at first I was like oh that's wild but did that like probably enter my brain and you know mess it up a bit sure for sure.
42:16.57
jordanale
You know, yes alongside everything else that you were seeing and hearing growing up right and seeing bodies that were. Only seeing bodies that were smaller sizes right? So it just. It's all this messaging over time that like infiltrates the way that we think right in a quote subconscious way. Um, until we don't even realize like how disordered it is and how like disruptive and dysfunctional. It is um so. Yeah, and I just I you know what we were saying before about what weight do you feel? You're strongest at right? like we're so not used to thinking about that Way. You're so used to thinking? Well what wait do I quote look my best at what weight you know are people going to like think that I look great at right? and it's all about Aesthetics. It's all about the look. It's never about like.
42:58.18
Helene Jafine
Um, yes.
43:07.30
jordanale
How I feel. Um and so and I think that strength is something That's so underrated and overlooked for women. Um, and there's so many workouts out there that claim to be strengthening but are not actually Strengthening. Um. To really start to like shift that narrative and that's why like I'm so happy to be having this conversation to you know, just so that people listening can start to question like what are there? What are my thoughts. What are my beliefs around this like um, you know how am I talking to myself. How am I thinking about my body am I Only thinking about it in terms of like how it looks. Am I ever thinking about my body in terms of how strong I am or what I can do or how like how I feel physically in terms of like my confidence. Um, these are like the really important conversations and questions that need to be like happening. So.
43:54.48
Helene Jafine
And I think 1 thing I will say in case I don't get a chance to say this later that just because I've overcome this one hurdle doesn't mean that I am on the other side so you know and I'm sure you've had this with your clients. Maybe even yourself.
44:04.15
jordanale
Um, right.
44:12.47
Helene Jafine
Um, I will say this because we both did the same thing is yesterday I also had a piece of cake I also had a piece of cake I saw it on your Instagram and I forgot to message you but I was going to and initially I was like this is great I'm having cake just afternoon monday it was in the fridge I really wanted it and.
44:19.10
jordanale
My birth. Ah.
44:27.59
jordanale
Ah.
44:30.86
Helene Jafine
Ah, part of my brain was like probably not the best idea. But then I you know, but then I had like if you want to say like the angel and the devil I had them both going I ended up calming the devil down and the angel stayed but again those those thoughts still come in. It's just.
44:32.60
jordanale
Um, yeah.
44:46.68
jordanale
Um, oh totally mess. Yeah, right.
44:47.57
Helene Jafine
It's just how you deal with it right? is is the devil overtaking and is that ruining your whole day is that changing your evening workout is that changing your evening meal or or whatever that that translates to so it is that lifelong journey.
45:00.56
jordanale
Um, yes, Nope um.
45:05.97
Helene Jafine
It is a daily grind. You know some days or let's say easier than others. Some days are no problem. You know you ate your your meals you felt satiated. You had a good workout. Whatever that may be but then there's other days where that happens too and so I just you know I want to make that very clear that just because.
45:20.68
jordanale
Um, here.
45:25.47
Helene Jafine
In some ways I feel like I've done so much and I've gotten you know to a good place. There are days there are days. There are moments and I am human like anyone else and I you know as as we kind of said earlier. There's so many years to uncover and unpack that it's not just the quick.
45:28.76
jordanale
Um, yeah.
45:34.72
jordanale
Yeah.
45:43.78
jordanale
Right? Yes, yeah.
45:44.40
Helene Jafine
Like it's gone. Never coming back right? And so I think that's really important for people to understand because I think when people hear something like that They're like oh Wow she has no issues anymore and trust me I do.
45:55.28
jordanale
Yeah I Really appreciate you saying that and I think that's like a good like a perfect way to kind of like start to wrap it up because this is lifelong work and you learn the skills you develop skills and I always talk about this language around like the volume of the thoughts starts to go down and maybe the frequency goes down.
46:03.97
Helene Jafine
The.
46:14.41
jordanale
But it's still there and right there's I mean there was yesterday a voice in the back of my head right at three o'clock I'm eating this. It was a big piece of cake and it's like my head's like don't do this. This is bad. You shouldn't be eating this.
46:15.82
Helene Jafine
Yep.
46:28.47
jordanale
But then I'm able to respond be able to notice those thoughts and respond to them. It's like am I eating a piece of cake every day three o'clock no I'm not doing that every day that would be a different situation like there's something else going on but like I'm being thoughtful I'm being intentional I'm enjoying this. It was like amazing. You know it's. Having the skills and being able to respond to those thoughts noticing when they come up. Um and and having an acceptance that like that might be there for the rest of your life and that's okay, right? and having some compassion for that.
46:55.35
Helene Jafine
Yes.
46:57.77
jordanale
And some kindness towards your younger or maybe even middle aged or older self depending how old you are that you've been living in this environment and with these thoughts for many many many many years decades and that it's okay that your brain still does that. That's what your brain does. And then like cultivating those skills over time to be able to respond to it like so I love that like anecdote that you shared because it's just it's just it's such a perfect example of the reality of like of what this work really is um.
47:25.98
Helene Jafine
Yeah.
47:29.38
jordanale
So Thank you so much for that and thank you just for all this like I'm so glad that you've reached out and this is such a great conversation to be having at all and then Publicly like for other people to hear and to get people thinking because for me, that's what this podcast is about is to talk about topics to get people. Thinking and questioning and getting curious about their own ways of seeing themselves their own ways of talking to themselves. Um in the hopes of like moving towards finding more ease more compassion more kindness um around all of it. So I Really appreciate like everything that you shared. Um, yeah.
48:01.59
Helene Jafine
Thank you for having me this has been great.
48:05.72
jordanale
Yeah, it's awesome. So you're based in Toronto and I do believe we have some listeners in Canada um, but so could you can just share a little bit more about your gym if people are local and want to reach out how they can go about doing that.
48:15.97
Helene Jafine
Sure best way I would say is to follow us. We're at girls just want a box whether that be Instagram Facebook Tiktok as well and then I also have my handle in there. But it's heleen Jaffine and I'm I've done.
48:24.49
jordanale
Yeah I'll using it.
48:32.57
Helene Jafine
1 one of these before and if anyone wants to talk about their own journey and or share something that like resonated with them I'm happy to talk about or expand more on any of the things that I you know spoke of today. Thank you.
48:43.21
jordanale
Awesome! Thank you so much. This has been great.