episode 253: dressing the body you’re in, not the body you want with stylist nicole garfunkel
Getting dressed is hard enough as it is. Getting dressed in a body that feels new after eating disorder recovery or years of disordered eating? Whole different level.
In this conversation, I’m joined by personal stylist Nicole Garfunkel, who works specifically with women in eating disorder recovery, to talk about closets, clothing sizes, “flattering,” experimenting with style, and why your wardrobe might be the missing piece of your healing.
You’ll hear:
Why your closet holds so much emotional “energy” – and what it means if it’s packed with old sizes and “one day” jeans
The first thing Nicole has clients do before shopping or buying anything new (and why it has nothing to do with trends)
A totally different way to think about “flattering” that has nothing to do with looking smaller
Practical, grounded tips to make shopping less triggering – from what to eat, to who to bring, to when not to go
How getting dressed can become a daily self-care ritual instead of a panic-inducing chore
How to start experimenting with clothes when you’re convinced you “can’t pull that off”
Why re-wearing your clothes (instead of constant hauls) can actually help define your personal style
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253
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jordana: Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Diet Diaries. I have another really cool guest today. I don't do a lot of guest episodes. Um, and. I'm really excited about this because this is something that I didn't even know existed. So I'm talking today and we're gonna talk with Nicole Garfunkel and she's a personal stylist for women in eating disorder recovery.
Um, and up until like maybe a month ago, I didn't even know that was a thing, and then I heard it was a thing through like a mutual connection that we had and I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. And so Nicole and I connected and we've been talking and it was just like a perfect fit for her to come on.
Um. On the diet diary. So, hi Nicole.
nicole: Hi.
jordana: Um, I'm super excited to have you here. I know this is gonna be such an awesome resource for my listeners, hopefully for you to share with your community as well. Um, because getting dressed for any woman. For most women, I'll say really is, is [00:01:00] stressful and hard, and especially for women who have gone through anything major with their bodies and with food, it becomes like this whole other level of, of challenge.
Um, so I'd love to just start by hearing a little bit about how you became a stylist and became a stylist. I mean, talk about a niche like this is like the most, a most amazing niche, but so specialized. And I wanted to hear more about how you, um. Chose to wide, how you chose to to work with women in this population.
nicole: Yeah, for sure. Um, so I've always known that I wanted to work in fashion that was like always like a through line in my life. And when I was little I was always really obsessed with like celebrity styling and stylists, especially around the time, like Rachel Zoe was a really popular show. Um, and I feel like stylists at that time kind of had like a bit of a persona and I always was fascinated by.
The confidence that people like on red carpets and at events seemed to portray. And I always loved the way that like every carpet was like a [00:02:00] different version of themselves. Like one time they'll be wearing like a certain type of outfit and then another time for a different movie that they're promoting, they would completely change their persona via close.
And I thought that that was really cool and really interesting. And, um, you know, I ended up studying fashion like again, this was always a through line in my life, but my relationship with fashion has kind of ebbed and flowed throughout my life, which has been interesting and I feel like the worst time in my life.
In terms of my relationship with fashion was when I was in high school, I was diagnosed with PCOS and I had a pretty drastic change in my body, which I think, you know, you experience just generally as a teen. But I think for me with PCOS, it was, um, not just like, you know, developing as a woman. It had an extra layer of a lot of like weight gain and acne and like hair growth and all these things that are really synonymous with PCOS if for people who are not familiar.
And I really just started to despise getting dressed and it felt really confronting in a [00:03:00] negative way because, you know, getting dressed is real. You have to focus on your body because you're putting things physically on your body. And, um, even though I was pursuing this career in fashion and about to go to fashion school.
I really just, you know, I didn't feel creative. I was wearing a lot of dark colors, a lot of baggy clothes, just really focusing on, um, comfortability and also just like not being seen. And I think that, you know, clothes can be used for good or for bad. And at that time I was really using it for bad. And um, throughout that time too, I was.
I was participating in a lot of like disordered eating tendencies because of the way that PCOS is treated a lot of dieting and excessive exercise. And that also was making me feel a lot worse and not really even helping my symptoms with my PCOS. And so, um, you know, while I was pursuing this fashion degree, I learned a lot about intuitive eating through a friend who's a dietician.
And I think that really not only changed my. Opinion of like [00:04:00] what health means to me and like how I wanted to approach my own health, but also change the way that I thought about fashion, because I think that that was the gateway too. You know, kind of coming to accept my body for the way that it looked and not really trying to control it or change it, just like letting it be and focusing more on how I felt on the inside.
That also unlocked something with my fashion. I was able to finally get to this place where I was like, you know what? Like I actually, I love fashion. This has always been a passion of mine and I am feeling kind of sick and tired of using it for bad. I want to use it as a way to feel really good. I don't wanna perpetuate this stereotype that you have to look a certain way to participate in fashion and enjoy fashion and.
Um, this kind of happened naturally without me even realizing it, but I think where it came to a head was actually during C-O-V-I-D-I was working a corporate fashion job. You know, we were all quarantining, all wearing like the comfy clothes, which I think we needed for the time. We were all like, you know, in a very unsafe [00:05:00] environment and needed that like physical comfort.
But I got to a point where I was like, I just feel so like lethargic and I'm motivated in my day and I just miss wearing my clothes. I miss getting dressed every day and. One day I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna get dressed for work, even though I'm gonna sit in my room at my desk, like, let's just see what happens.
Let's just try something new spice things up. And that day, like even though at the time I didn't love my job that I had, I just felt so. Much better. I was like, wow, I actually can be creative. I feel like more motivated than I normally do. I also feel like it provided a sense of like transition in the different points of my day.
Like from, you know, waking up to working to after work. It just like made me feel a lot better mentally. And so I just started getting dressed every single day and, um. This also kind of made me feel like I was ready to start thinking about, okay, like what do I actually wanna do with my life? Like I love fashion, I definitely wanna pursue this as a career still, but I would love to do it in a way that actually helps people.
And I have so many memories as a [00:06:00] kid and a teen and in college where I would help people get dressed in my life, like friends and family, um, who also had. Uh, history of eating disorders and all of them, I just noticed had a lot of trouble getting dressed and there was a lot of body dysmorphia and a lot of insecurity.
And also just like a disinterest in fashion. 'cause I forget that not everyone really does love fashion. Um, you know, when you're in something, you kind of lose sight of that sometimes. Um. So, yeah, I just have so many memories of helping people go shopping and get dressed. And I had one friend in particular who was like, if, if I didn't have you, like, I would just like be wearing leggings every single day.
And I, through all these experiences, decided, you know what? I think I wanna like help people. Do this in their life because I've seen a transformation. I was able to change my life through using, getting dressed as an actual tool, as a positive point in my life versus using it as this thing to hide and um.
And also just like [00:07:00] not even utilizing it. Like some people just don't even utilize it. They're not even using it for like good or bad, it's just like a neutral thing that they're doing. So, um, yeah, that's kind of how I got to, to do this. And I just find that the eating disorder community in particular, like I was saying.
They just really struggle, uh, to get dressed. It's really confronting. It's really difficult, especially when you recover into a new body shape or size, which often happens because you know you're a healthier version of yourself. And although you're healthy now, like it, it is uncomfortable to be in a new body, and I just love helping people. Kind of like finish their recovery by using style. I think it's like this holistic tool that is so powerful at the end of your treatment that not a lot of people are talking about. And so yeah, that's kind of how I've gotten into this niche.
jordana: I love it. I like literally love every single thing that you said. Um, I just, I think also I, I relate personally to so much of it. I had PCOS and we're, we're, we have a, I think, a decent age difference between us, but, [00:08:00] um, I, we went through so many similar things, um, and. The power of clothes. And it's so funny 'cause I, as a coach, I talk about this all the time and then it's like, here you are someone who like does this specific thing for a living, which is just so cool.
And I'm, I'm so excited that we're connected and. Because I talk about using clothes. I had kind of a similar thing, partially 'cause of COVID, but I taught yoga in my house for years and years and years. So I wore like athleisure every day, all day. And then I was like, I'm sick of just wearing leggings and a sweatshirt every day.
And I started to slowly shift that. I also transitioned out of teaching yoga into coaching. And these things were kind of happening simultaneously, but. I sit, it's so funny. You're like, I'm gonna get dressed even though it's COVID and I'm sitting in my house working from home. Like I work from home in my attic every day and I get dressed every day for myself, even if I'm not on a Zoom or a podcast or I don't see [00:09:00] anyone, because it exactly what you said, it changes the way that you show up and it becomes a form of self care and.
It is so confronting 'cause you do have to pay attention to your body 'cause you have to try things on and you have to button things and zipper things and you have to look and see what you like on your body, what you don't, and what's comfortable. And um, that brings up so much. But it's so, it's so therapeutic when you have the right support to do it right.
And I think that, I think people do need support. I think it's very hard to just do that on your own and or feel like you're the only person doing it. So what you do for women, I just think is, I mean, I feel like you have identified such an unmet need, which is just phenomenal. Um. So when you, when you work with women, like what's kind of the process that you go through to help them figure out their style or to buy new clothes or how, like, how does that work for them [00:10:00] coming out of, whether it's, you know, uh, clinical eating disorder, recovery or, you know, um, any type of treatment or recovery from disordered eating?
Like what's, what's sort of the process?
nicole: Yeah, so like I said, like I really believe that, you know, getting dressed with intention is what makes it so, like changes the way that you approach. Every area of your life. And so, you know, especially when you're coming out of recovery, like you're not only recovering into a new body, you're often recovering into like a new version of yourself.
Like your values and your priorities have often shifted, and I think it's kind of like an identity crisis as well. In terms of getting dressed. So I really like to actually help people ground in their personal values to start, because I think, again, it just adds its intention and it, it makes getting dressed feel like it's bigger than you.
It's like bigger than yourself. And so I always do like personal values exercises with people usually like visualizations and an example of like how I, you know, [00:11:00] connect. Personal values with style, like I feel like the easiest one that I always give is sustainability is a huge one for people. So if you really value sustainability, just generally speaking, like you care about the planet, you can approach getting dressed from a sustainable place.
Like you can thrift more frequently, you can shop it retailers that are socially responsible, you can wear more natural dyes and fabric. So that, I think just makes getting dressed feel like a bit more connected to yourself and, um. The second thing that I always do with people is a closet clearing, which is basically just a closet cleanup.
But I love using the word clearing because I think that closets hold energy. I really like clothes and closets hold so much energy. And I feel the same way about like jewelry in particular. I'm a big jewelry person. I think that there's like so much energy in jewelry, um, 'cause it's just like always touching your body and I'm sure there's like science on this, but.
Um, yeah, so clearing out the closet is a really important piece because, you know, again, we're shedding this old version of yourself. Of like in terms of who you are and [00:12:00] also physically, and there's probably a lot of clothes in your closet that just don't resonate with you and also don't fit you. And being reminded of that every single day can be really triggering for people.
So I love to help people get rid of those things that are no longer working in terms of size or values. And you know, we try to make your closet feel like a really safe space, make it feel organized so you can see everything all at one time. Um, anything to make, getting dressed just simpler is key. Um, especially if it's not something that you feel naturally inclined towards.
And also something that is really cool about doing a closet clearing is that I'm able to, one, see the gaps in people's closets because I don't recommend completely. Doing an overhaul in your closet, like financially, it doesn't make a lot of sense for people and you usually don't even need it. But also there's just so many things in your closet and so many different outfits that you haven't even discovered yet, and you just haven't changed your perspective on how to put things together.
So I'm able to actually do that right on the spot. So without even having purchased anything, people usually have brand new [00:13:00] outfits to wear, which is really, really.
jordana: Yeah.
nicole: And you know, there's obviously a lot of emotions that come up in a closet clearing, so I'm there to, you know, help process that. You know, we're letting go of this old version of who you are, who you were, and transitioning into this version of you in recovery, which is really awesome.
And then, yeah, in terms of developing your personal style, it's really. It is kind of different for every person. It's always a combination of, um, you know, like what do you find inspiring? And when I think of inspiration with fashion, I'm not thinking of just looking at other people's outfits. I'm thinking of looking at literally anything that inspires you.
It could be nature, it could be art, music, tv, um, food architecture, like literally anything. And we're kind of, you know, making it a playful, fun experience to look for inspiration. I also love to go back and think about, you know, what did you like to wear when you were a kid? Because when you're a kid, you're like the most uninhibited, like joyful, playful version of yourself.
And a lot of times I find that there are through lines and what you did like to wear [00:14:00] as a kid and now like obviously not the exact same outfits because we've grown up, but there are definitely some common themes that we can still pull from. And it's also really fun to like when you are getting dressed, be like what would the 5-year-old version of me wanna wear today?
Because I'm sure that version of me would have a heyday in my closet and would absolutely love it. So like kind of having this like dress up mentality. And then, you know, it is important I think, to look at other people's outfits when you're out and about. Like what about outfits, um, appeal to you. Like when you see someone on the street and you're like, wow, they look so good.
Like, can we kind of distill like what are the elements of that that are interesting? Um, and you know, through all that we align on like what is your personal style? And it's not like a finite thing. It's like always an evolving thing, but. Um, I love to do mood boarding with clients so that they have a visual representation of what that looks like.
They can put that up in their closet, so they have that inspiration right there every day that they're getting dressed, which is really great. And then, you know, I do find pieces for them, like depending on, you know, how much money they wanna spend, like what their lifestyle is like, what makes the most sense.
We do some sourcing, and [00:15:00] I mostly do it online, but I do love to go shopping in person with people because, you know, the shopping experience can be really, really stressful, which we could definitely talk about more later. But. Um, yeah. And then, um, you know, through that I do body image coaching because of course there are things coming up throughout and, um.
It's really great to like get some support while you're actually exploring, getting dressed in a way that feels more intentional in your day to day. And the last piece is ritualizing getting dressed. I think it's really amazing to view getting dressed every single day because it is something that we do have to do every single day.
How can we make it this like grounding almost spiritual practice for you to start your day by getting dressed? And every person that I work with, this looks different. I, I have one client who loves to dance in the morning. To just like get her energy up. So her ritual of getting dressed is always starting with dancing and like really thinking about what she wants to wear and then getting dressed from there.
For me it's usually a bit like more quiet. Like I love to just like have my coffee and like take a few deep breaths and really think about, okay, like what do I have going on today? How do I want to feel and [00:16:00] what can I wear in order to show up fully and most like myself in my day? Um, and yeah, again, this just brings more attention.
It gives you a moment to take care of yourself, and it makes it a true self-care practice. And by continually doing this every single day, you're just showing yourself that you're worthy of being taken care of, and you're worthy of putting beautiful things on your body and expressing your creativity.
jordana: I love it. You do such a beautiful job of articulating all of that, and I can't imagine that there's a single person listening to this who. Can't benefit from that. Right. Eating disorder recovery or not. Like, it's just the process of shifting the way we think about how we use clothes and what they do for us.
Um, I have like two big thoughts or more than that, but there's something you, you said early on when you were just speaking around like the energy that our closets hold and I think that's such a really. Powerful insight and articulation of what's happening in there, right? Because you can walk into your closet, and I feel like the cliche for a good reason is I, [00:17:00] I, I have nothing to wear.
I'm overwhelmed, or I'm trying on things and I'm crying, or I don't like anything that I have. Um, and then when we're holding onto old sizes of things, even if we're not consciously thinking about it, we know it's sitting in there. We know those old jeans are sitting in that cabinet, right? And it's, it's this.
It's this cloud of like, oh, the size I used to be, or that I should get into that again. And it, it creates a tone that we don't even realize and it makes our closet not a fun place to be. So I think acknowledging the energy that the closet holds and that we have the autonomy to change that and shift that through the process that you just talked about is, is amazing.
And I think so. Um. Overlooked. Right? About how, and you're starting your day in there to your points, you're starting your day in this place with this really crappy energy that's not supporting you. That's actually, you know, it's, it's, it's harmful in some ways. Um, and it's keeping you really stuck and really trapped.
Um, so the, the process that you go through to shift that for people has such a domino effect, right? To everything that's happening [00:18:00] throughout their day. Um. So as you were talking kind of towards the end of what you were just sharing about developing personal style, something that I've talked about, I actually did a whole podcast episode on this.
I'd love to hear your take. Right. Is the word flattering, which is like, I. Don't know when I quite stopped using that word, probably about the time that I realized that flattering, pretty much my interpretation is, does this make me look smaller? Um, and how, what does that word mean to you? Do you use it or not?
And how do you help people figure out what does look good on them? Right? Because different things do look good on different people, but I also struggle with the concept of like, well, I don't have, you know. Like, I was just talking to my mom about this and she got a pair of wide leg jeans and she's like, I'm, I'm, I'm tall.
I'm five eight. So she's like, you're tall, you can wear wide leg jeans. I'm short, I can't wear wide leg jeans. And I'm like, that's not true. Like, I don't, like, I don't buy into that. So I'd love to get your take on some of like [00:19:00] that, those lang, that language and those beliefs that we carry around.
nicole: Yeah, I actually don't really use the word flattering. And I, I think I similarly like, kind of subconsciously stopped using it. But you know, I think especially if you're of the magazine generation like we are, um, I used to love looking at magazines and I'd be like, oh, like what do I wear for like my pear shaped body type or like my athletic body tape or whatever.
And I think this kind of is, um, similar to the way that I feel about trends, which is that, you know. If you like something, wear it. If you don't like something, don't wear it. And it doesn't matter if you look a certain way or your body shape is a certain way. And the way that I like to think about it more is again, just generally like what do you like is like the very simple way to think about it.
But also I really love to play with silhouettes and this is kind of like more to the point of like. Getting dressed is an experimentation and you can experiment with different ways to put outfits together. And so I think of it more, [00:20:00] um, from a proportion standpoint, like one simple way to get dressed in terms of proportions and not your body.
I'm talking about the outfit itself is like if you're wearing like a very oversized, like I'm wearing an oversized blazer today, and if I were to wear like a wide leg pan, it might just look like a bit overwhelming, like I might look like I'm being swallowed. And again, this has nothing to do with my body, it's just the way the outfit looks.
So instead of wearing oversize on the top and the bottom, I'm gonna wear an oversized blazer and then a more fitted jean. And it just gives the outfit more proportion and vice versa. If you're wearing a wider leg pant, maybe think about wearing it with a top that's a bit more fitted. Um, and yeah, we're really just trying to move away from.
Your body being the focus and the focus is more like, how do I feel inside? And is this outfit allowing me to express myself creatively? And also like, do you feel physically comfortable? Like this is one of the most important things with getting dressed like no matter who you are and what phase you're at, like you wanna make sure that you're comfortable because if you're not, like it's all you're gonna think about.
Like you're gonna be really fidgety. [00:21:00] And I, I have so many memories and I think everyone has these memories of wearing clothes that are uncomfortable and fidgeting, and that's all you can think about. And you can't wait to go home and like rip that item of clothing off. And I want your clothes to be comfortable and support you in your life, both physically and creatively.
So again, moving away from the flattering, focusing on how you feel and just being playful and experimental with the way that you're putting outfits together versus saying like, oh, my body looks this way so I have to only dress this way for the rest of my life. That's just not, not what we're going for.
jordana: As you're talking about this, like I'm thinking about all of the parallels between the way you approach helping women figure out like what they like to wear and what their style is, and like what we do with food in terms of figuring out what works for you and what doesn't work for you, right?
We're so conditioned to, oh, this is what, this is the meal plan this person is doing. This is what I saw on TikTok. This is the diet she's doing that will work for me. Like nearly identical to, oh, this is what this [00:22:00] influencer is saying is cute. This is what people say I should wear if I carry my weight in my belly.
Or this is what people say I should wear if I have a pear shaped body. And we just then take these things for granted and we do them and we're not happy. We don't like how we look. We are hungry all the time. Or we have cravings like because we haven't figured out what works for us. We haven't gone through that process of experimentation and getting curious and noticing.
We're just cut off from that. And there's, I mean, that's where, that's where all the good stuff happens. That's where you really like come into who you are. Um, and I just like, I love. And then you and I, I'm gonna talk about it. You and I are talking about like doing something together, like off offline. I'm like, oh, this is like, you know, this idea of exploring and getting curious about what works for you clothing wise, what works for you food wise, and creating that for yourself, creating your own way of getting dressed, creating your own sense of style.
Sense of style, creating your own way of eating. Um. I feel like culturally we've gotten to this place because of social media where we just copy what someone else does [00:23:00] because we're either told this is what's cool, this is what's in, this is what's trendy, or This is what's healthy, this is what you need to lose weight.
This is what I'm doing, and it worked for me and we've lost all sense of, of how to figure out for ourselves what we need to do.
nicole: Yeah, and I think that, you know, to your point about social media, like we're really being sold quick fixes right now in all senses. And I think that the thing with, you know, I always, I agree there are so many parallels between food and fashion. I talk about this constantly. And I think that we're, sorry, there's like a fly buzzing around my head.
Oh my god. Uh, it distracted me. Um, but you know, yeah, we're being sold these quick fixes and it takes a long time to learn like what works for you and what doesn't in any sense. But like in this conversation, food and getting dressed, and I think that. We view that from such a negative place and a place of frustration, which I definitely get.
Like I've been in that place too. [00:24:00] I'm no stranger. But if we can view that as a positive thing, as an exciting thing, as a playful thing, then we'll be better off for it. And, you know. With getting dressed especially, and now that we're in this like work from home phase, I love to tell people that, you know, experimenting, especially when you're working from home or just having a day where you're not leaving the house is the best way to do it.
I had a client who really wanted to get comfortable wearing crop tops, but she wasn't really feeling ready to do it outside of her house. I was like, okay, like this is our challenge now. And so whenever you're at home you're going to wear a crop top of varying degrees. Like it could be like this much stomach showing or this much or this much, and we're just gonna work our way up to the point where you're comfortable wearing it outside.
And now she loves wearing crop tops. It's one of her favorite things to wear, and I'm not saying that everyone has to wear a crop top, but I'm saying that you can get comfortable doing something or eating something or wearing something that you may not have been comfortable doing before. As long as you practice it and as long as you have the support, but you're not going to get there in a moment.
It's just not [00:25:00] realistic.
jordana: Yeah. Yeah. It's just like the, the parallels are just, are so cool, right? It's, it's a graded exposure, right? What you just talked about. It's doing, exposing yourself to something that feels a little bit uncomfortable, bit by bit and building up your capacity to experience that and sit with it. Um. And figure out what works for you, right?
Like, how much of a crop top does she actually end up liking, right? It's so, it's so subjective. Um, but giving yourself that space to experiment, to get curious rather than just shutting yourself off from it because you've been told, oh, I have a stomach so I can't wear crop tops. Um, or I, you know, need to lose weight so I have to cut out all carbs.
Whatever it is, um, is just, it's. It's what we've always been sold to your point, because it feels like the quickest way to the end result, but it's like the long way is the short way kind of thing. Um, and when you don't go through this process, you like sacrifice so much along the way of like, of who you are and feeling good like in your own body, um, which seems to you [00:26:00] no longer just be a priority for people, sadly, at this point.
Mm-hmm.
nicole: and I feel like you just end up going around in circles because if you're not like focusing on like the root of like why you feel a certain way, then you're, it's just gonna keep coming up. Like you're gonna think that you like, quote unquote solved the problem or like got to the resolution, but it'll feel like that for a bit.
And then you'll go back to feeling the way that you did before where you were like in so much agony over whatever thing you're
jordana: Yeah. Yeah.
nicole: so yeah.
jordana: You mentioned something, um, earlier around kind of the stress around shopping for people. Um, and I'd love to dive into a little bit around that, like the size, clothing size conversation, um, and what your experience is like with that as a stylist, supporting people through this process.
nicole: Yeah, shopping and sizing can be very triggering for people. And you know, myself included, I've certainly had a breakdown or many in the dressing room over my size. And so, and I think we all have, if you have it, I'm like, [00:27:00] wow, you're so evolved. Um, but um, yeah, I mean, in terms of sizing, the fashion industry doesn't make it easy to accept your size because first of all.
We're in a time, or we have been in, in a place where like thinness is really, um, sold as the societal standard, as what is desired. And, you know, it's, it's not realistic and it's also difficult because. Sizing is so different at every single store. Even within one store, you can be like five different sizes.
Like I have pairs of pants where I bought the pants in blue and they fit me, and then in the same size and white, they don't fit me because they're made differently. And so it, it's just really frustrating, um, in terms of like the practicality of shopping, but also like the way that you feel about yourself.
And so I really. Like to help people shift away from caring about what your size is, because honestly, it doesn't matter. It means nothing [00:28:00] about you. It, it's really just like, does this thing like fit me the way that I want it to fit? And I really love to actually encourage people to buy things in sizes that are maybe not like exactly fitting their body, like, for example, buying things that are a bit more oversized to like change the way that it fits you.
Also you can buy things bigger and get them tailored so that they do actually fit you really well. And also, if you buy something that's like a little bit smaller sometimes that fits you in a way that like feels good for the outfits that you're trying to build. So sizing is more, more just a tool rather than like, oh, this is my size and this is what it means about me.
It really, it doesn't have to mean that. And then also I do wanna acknowledge that for people who are in larger bodies, it's really difficult to shop. In person especially, and online. You know, there are stores that do have inclusive sizing, but it is really, really difficult. And so the search can take a while.
And I guess this goes back to what I was saying about experimentation and you know, not going for the quick fix. It's like you do have to like try [00:29:00] different sizes and be willing to see things that don't fit you and be patient in finding things that do fit you. And again, this is not easy stuff, but the more patient and calm you are when you are shopping and getting dressed and doing all these things, the better off you'll be. Um, and then in terms of shopping, yeah, shopping is really difficult, but I have a few tools that I like to give people in order to like have a good shopping experience. So the first thing is starting and ending your day with something that you enjoy doing or something that makes you feel good or calm or however, whatever positive emotion you wanna feel.
Um. Because you know, if you approach it from a positive place, the experience will likely be more positive. And if you do end up having an experience while you're shopping, that isn't the best. If you're doing something that you like to do afterwards, then it'll kind of like heal you from that experience.
So that's one thing. Second, which I think you'll love is that you should eat before you go shopping. Um, because shopping on an empty stomach is an absolutely miserable [00:30:00] experience. So if you don't eat before, build in time to get a snack or get a meal at some point. Because being hangry and shopping and being in the lights and not being able to find something and the store's about to close, it just makes you feel so frantic.
And again, you're not gonna find anything that you're looking for.
jordana: Yeah.
nicole: Another thing is bringing a trusted person with you. Like I love going shopping with my clients. I feel like it's a really great experience because also, you know, they're there to help, like manage your emotions if something does come up.
Also, they're there to just like have a good time, make it a fun experience. And I have so many positive memories of especially shopping with my mom. Like I'll be in the dressing room, like usually looking for something specific and I'm about to have a breakdown. She's like, I'll be right back. We'll run out and like grab a bunch of stuff and then I'll end up finding something that I love.
So it's great to have someone with you to like grab extra sizes so you don't have to like work with a sales associate if you're not comfortable and you just have that person there to lean on and have a better experience. And if you know similarly, like if you are at a [00:31:00] store and you're like, I can't find anything here.
I don't know where to go, like you're feeling really stressed. They could be the calm presence and like help you pivot in the moment. Um, and another thing too, I, you know, as much as I love to shop in person, there really is something about ordering online and trying on in a safe space as in your home. Um, and another thing that I love about that is that you can see how the items that you're buying actually fit in with your closet. Um, you can create outfits on the fly. Like maybe you'll buy something and you'll be like, oh, I actually don't really have anything that this really works with. Even if it fits, like I don't want it because I'm seeing that it's just not working. And then, you know, to return it, the only thing is that you have to return stuff, um, which I know some people don't love to do.
I personally love a return. I love a little, I. Return errand. Um, I'm quite known for them actually amongst my friends, which is funny. Um, but if if that's the experience that's better for you, then that's great because, you know, trying on in store can be really stressful and the lighting's usually bad and it's hot.
And it's loud. There's so many factors. Although I will say that there are some stores who do have really great [00:32:00] dressing room experiences now, um, particularly Abercrombie and Reformation. They have this panel. I dunno if you've been to either, and you can change the lighting, you can change the music, and it's a really, really cool experience.
Um, but not every dressing room is like that. So again, like pick the shopping experience that you know is gonna work best for you. And if you do have to go out in person and it's not your favorite thing, bring someone with you. Make sure you eat. Bookend your day with things that you like and also, um, mapping out where you want to go ahead of time can be really helpful, especially if you're not at a mall.
If you're just like out shopping in, like if you live in New York City or if you're like in like a downtown area, like it's just easier to know what you have available and where you want to go.
jordana: Yeah, I love all those like really specific tips and um, it's so funny how many, I feel like times in what you've shared this kind of concept of like emotional self-regulation, right? We haven't used those words yet, but like that's what's happening, right? When like, having someone there to ground you or planning something fun before and after, like all these ways to kind of check in [00:33:00] because shopping can be really dysregulating and you're gonna get stressed and you're gonna.
Potentially get upset and feel frustrated with the sizing or how things fit or the lighting. And I always sweat in dressing rooms every single time I am sweaty. And then the clothes are like, it's just weird. I don't even know why, why I always sweat in dressing rooms. Um, probably 'cause I'm nervous or have some level of anxiety or who knows.
But there's so much internal self-talk that needs to happen through this and it's so easy to just spiral into the, all the really negative, bad stuff. Um, and so the kind of like these, these. Tools or structure that you just mapped out, I think is super helpful to kind of create like a framework for your experience, um, and to prioritize it and really treat it as like a, a form of self-care.
Like people joke around like, like getting facial in a manicure and shopping is self-care. Like no, it's not the shopping, it's self, that's the self-care. It's the way that you're approaching the shopping. It's the way that you're talking to yourself and why you're doing it. Um. That is the self-care piece, not just like the buying [00:34:00] yourself new clothes element of it.
Um, so I love all of those suggestions I think are super helpful and just like really actionable, right? Like immediately.
nicole: Yeah, definitely. And another thing too that I love to tell people is like, don't go shopping when you're like day four, greasy hair in a messy bone, wearing your sweatpants, like kind of looking like a little bit less put together than you normally do in your everyday life. Be. 'cause that also can make you feel less confident in yourself.
And also it makes it hard to visualize what the things that you're trying on are actually gonna look like. And also I think about this a lot for like weddings because I'm in a phase of life where I'm being invited to a lot of weddings. Don't wait till the last minute to go shopping for these things that are very specific.
And same with actually bathing suits for the summer. This comes up so much with my clients. I feel like April comes around and they're like freaking out and I'm like, start buying your bathing suits now. Before you need them, because if you are in June and you're a week away from a vacation and you're stressing the heck [00:35:00] out, like shopping's gonna feel like a horrible experience.
And if it's already, you know, it's gonna be a bit of a fraud experience. By setting yourself up and doing it ahead of time, you're saving yourself so much stress and, and in turn, just taking better care of yourself overall by preparing.
jordana: yeah. Um, what else if, I'm just trying to think through. Are there any other kind of suggestions or tips that you think would be helpful for people listening in terms of like if someone's coming from a place of, I don't know where to start. I feel like I can't wear this. My body is, I have big boobs or tiny boobs or a big stomach or a little stomach or big, all the things that we say to ourselves and we're like, I can't wear this because of that.
Um. What's kind of a good starting point for people who have maybe not done like a lot of like investing either kind of [00:36:00] emotionally or time or financially with their wardrobe recently. 'cause they've been kind of like avoiding it. But hopefully maybe this podcast has gotten them excited. Um, like what would be like a good next step?
nicole: Yeah, I think firstly I would maybe do some like reflection on like why you think that, like why do you think that you can't wear that thing because you're big. Busted or because your hips are bigger or whatever, like kind of doing that, like maybe a journaling practice or something to kind of like dismantle this belief that you have about yourself.
And maybe also, I love journaling and I think maybe journaling about like what would it look like to actually like not listen to that, to actually wear that thing, despite the fact that you have a big bust. What would that look like? What would that feel like? And. Actually try it. Like I said, like trying things when you're at home is a really safe way to do it.
So, um, I think challenging yourself in that way. And also I would say like, you know, if you haven't really thought about like your personal style too much or you feel really stuck [00:37:00] with your wardrobe, a really simple way to change the way you feel about getting dressed, I think is to think about it again, like I've been saying from this creative place and challenge yourself to wear the things that you.
Really like to wear in a different way. If you have like a particular shirt that you wear constantly because you like it, or maybe because it's like a comfort shirt, for example, maybe see if you pair it with something different. And see how it feels like, just change it. It's really subtle changes, I believe.
And just changing the way that you're putting an outfit together can make you feel like you do have a closet full of clothes and plenty of things to wear. And, um, also just kind of like change your perspective on like what is possible for you in terms of your style. I also love thrifting. I have kind of had a bit of a like.
Man relationship with thrifting because I'm quite tall. I'm five 10 and a bit curvy and I always was like, oh, I can't like find anything here. But I've actually been having a lot of fun [00:38:00] thrifting recently, and I think it goes back to what I was saying before about this like childlike mentality and this dress up mentality.
And maybe because they're like, the stakes are low, like the prices are usually a lot cheaper. You can try different styles without like it breaking the bank. Like maybe try thrifting and view it more like. Like, I'm, I'm hunting for treasure in this thrift store. Um, instead of just like, oh God, I gotta like go to the store and I gotta find this thing that's gonna fit me.
Like also, um, I do really love, um, buying men's clothes and I'm not a very like masculine dresser, but I just find it really interesting in terms of sizing. Um, to play with like different gendered clothes. So I would also play with that, like my blazer today is a men's blazer and I love the way it fits over a woman's blazer.
'cause I find that they're like more tapered and it's just like playing with different proportions. And I think, um, trying different like departments at the store could be really fun too.
jordana: Awesome. I love it. Just like experimenting, getting curious [00:39:00] and giving yourself space to do that
nicole: Mm-hmm.
jordana: Knowing that some things you're gonna love and are gonna work and some things you're not gonna love and not gonna work, and that's like a normal part of the process.
nicole: Yeah, that's the thing. Like if you don't like something, that's totally fine and you don't have to make that mean anything either. That doesn't mean failure, that just means experimenting. And I've been saying this so many to so many people recently, is that like you can't know if you like something without trying it.
I think we like to assume that we can be like, oh, I'm definitely gonna like that thing, or I'm not gonna like that thing. But that might not be the case. And you don't know until you try.
jordana: Yep.
nicole: It doesn't make you a failure at all. It just means that you were bold and brave enough to try something.
jordana: Totally. Yeah. And I think we expect ourselves to like things or not like things based on what everyone else's experience is with that thing. And then we cut ourselves off from even allowing ourselves a chance to explore for ourselves. Um, and then we're missing out on, on so much.
nicole: Yeah, I completely agree.
jordana: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to, to [00:40:00] just have this conversation with you and have this as a resource. Um, I know that you work virtually, so can you share your information? Um, and I'll put it in the show notes as well, but just so people can, um, get the details.
nicole: Yeah, totally. Um, my website is styling confidential.com. Uh, I also have a substack, which you can find on my website. Um, I am on Instagram and TikTok at Styling Confidential and actually a TikTok series that I've been doing recently that I've been absolutely loving and I'm finding that I'm getting really good feedback is, um, what I wore and when I bought it to kind of normalize, um.
Not wearing a brand new outfit every day, like influencers are trying to make us believe and, you know, actually re-wearing things in your closet and developing your style over time. So if that's of interest, I would definitely urge you to check it out. It's been really fun. And even doing that for yourself, like putting on an outfit and being like, huh, when did I buy all of this stuff?
It's been really interesting to see, um, the things that are in my wardrobe for a really long time that I still love.
jordana: I love that. That's a whole topic we did not even get
nicole: [00:41:00] Yeah.
jordana: is like the, the whole, like the whole culture, the whole, I mean HAUL culture on social media, which is like, oh, you have to never, to your point, repeat an outfit and be buying things from every brand every day all the time. Um, we can do it, we can do a part two episode.
So.
nicole: Perfect.
jordana: Awesome. Alright. Thank you so much for, for being here and, um, yeah, more, I think more from me and Nicole soon, hopefully.
nicole: Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much.