episode 244: what does it mean to look 24 at 84?
Martha Stewart looks 24… at 84.
What does that even mean?
When we see photos like this, is it empowering? Harmful? Both?
This week, I’m breaking down:
Why “looking younger” is never just about looking younger
The slippery slope of interventions — from mascara to facelifts
How to decide what you actually want vs. what society told you to want
And the one line from a blog post that completely reframed how I think about aging.
This isn’t about judging Martha or anyone else. It’s about learning how to navigate the insane expectations women face — and how to show up as the best version of you right throughout it all.
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244
[00:00:00] Alright. You guys don't know this, but I just started to try and record this podcast. This is my third time, so third time's a charm. Here we go. Alright, so what I'm gonna talk about today, I'm gonna talk about a picture of Martha Stewart that she posted on her Instagram. I'm looking at it right now, four days ago.
Well, at the time of this recording, it's September 8th, so early September. I'll include a link to the post. And in the photo look, I just wanna preface this by saying, I am talking about her body, not her body per se. I'm talking about her face, which is part of her body. Um, and I'm doing that because she is putting her body out there for conversation because she's talking about the way her skin and her face looks.
Um, and I think that. There are times when talking about bodies and appearances is necessary because otherwise we're just carrying these conversations in our heads and I think it creates a lot of shame. So if it's a turnoff to you that I'm talking about her appearance. Then you don't have to listen. Um, I think this is a really important conversation to have.
I think what I'm gonna say might surprise you, um, because really [00:01:00] my objective with this, this podcast episode, which is talking about essentially the fact that this photo, in this photo, she looks like 24, when she is at 84, 86, I think 84. I looked it up the other day in her eighties. Um. Look, what, what does that mean?
Right? And I think this is an important conversation to have, right? So there's a photo of her and she's doing like one of like, it's like the kiss face, and she's got like the whole like, angle of the camera and whatnot. And her skin literally looks like the skin of like a 24-year-old. Her skin looks quote unquote better than mine does, um, at 45.
And she's promoting, she's clearly, she's a, uh, working for this skincare company called Elm Biosciences. And so, and if you read, I, there's almost 3000 comments in the post. I skimmed through a couple of them. Right. There's a couple things I wanna talk about as it pertains to this photo. Um, and I think that I.
The first thing is like, what does this mean? What does this type of photo mean? If does it mean anything? Right? Is [00:02:00] her taking control over her appearance, like the ultimate form of feminism or is it harmful and totally going against what it means to exist in a human body? Or is it both? I don't have the answers to these questions.
I wanted to talk about this 'cause I think it's an important conversation to have. Um, because. What the, what we can do to our skin and our appearance. There's just keeps be getting more and more and more options. I read a huge article in The Cut yesterday, which is part of New York Magazine about facelifts and the growing prevalence of a specific type of facelift called, called called a deep plain facelift.
This is what Chris Jen suspected to have had, and Lindsay Lohan and a couple of other celebrities. Um. And how people are having work done. And some are saying, well, you can't even tell if they've had worked done. They just kind of look like this better, refreshed version of themselves. Right. And I think what's so alarming to me, or I think what, I guess that word kind of gives you a sense of like where my [00:03:00] feelings are at with this, even though I'm trying to go back and forth and really think about it.
So when I saw this picture, I'm like, holy shit, she looks so. Young in this photo right and this photo. Remember, photos are manipulated by lenses, by angles, by lighting, by composition. So there's a lot of factors here that are contributing to how she looks in this photo. This is a thousand percent likely not how she looks in real life and not how she looks in other videos and photos of herself, of herself.
Coincidentally, when I went onto the, her, when I went on to find this post, um, there's a reel that she posted today, September 8th when I'm recording this. Where she talks about how to position yourself to take a thirst trap photo, if you're not familiar with what a thirst trap is, is kind of like, basically, I'll call it like a sexy photo of yourself.
Um, and she's talking about like how to hold the camera and how to position it and like what lens, like what setting to put it on and all of that. Right? So she's like, she's owning that. And I think there's been a lot of conversation in recent years around women kind. Owning their sexuality and like that, [00:04:00] that's not what you and I, and by that I mean a lot of people are listening to this, what we might have called back in the nineties, like being slutty.
But it's like, this is, I, I have sexuality. I look sexy. There's parts of my body that I wanna accentuate, that I wanna feature, that I wanna show off. And it's my right as a woman who's in this body to do that. That doesn't mean that a person gets to take advantage of it or comment on it or try and, um, do something with it in a negative way.
Right. I think the connotation has always been right when I was growing up, if you're like a slut, you're putting yourself out there, well, then you ask for it, that kind of thing, which has completely. Ridiculous, right? A woman should be able to present herself and wear what she wants and feel completely safe doing so and not feel, um, objectified or denigrated or like she is simply an object.
Now you might say, well, if you're putting yourself out there like that, like what do you expect people's response to be? Right? These are, I think, start to get to be pretty complex, kind of [00:05:00] sociological and anthropological questions, but I. My Instagram time limit just went off, which I ignore every day, just so you know.
Um, I think what again, really struck me about this photo is how young she looks. She literally looks to me, I think she looks like she could be in her twenties. If I saw this photo and I didn't know it would, her was her. I would probably think this woman was like in her twenties, maybe 30, and she's 84, and it's like, holy shit, that you can change your appearance and on top of that, use photos to look.
So drastically different than we probably would expect a woman who is 84 to look. And what again? What does that mean? That's really why I wanted to talk about this. Is that good or is that bad? Is it neither? Is it both? I don't know. I don't have the answers to these questions, but I think this is a conversation we need to have because I do think that there is.
Certainly an impact when we see a photo like that of is that what women who are 84 are [00:06:00] expected to look like because it's available and it's out there, and then does that then impact people's opinions of what's attractive over time? And does that matter? Um, I just look, I, I think about, well, what, what does this mean?
What is, what pressure does this put on women? And is that. Even Martha's problem, right? Like, I don't know, probably not like she's allowed to do whatever she wants with her body. Just like when we see that we have the autonomy and the choice to say, oh, that's something that I want to do, or that's something I don't want to do, but, but then I really do think that with some of this stuff around what's considered attractive and the expectations around women, right?
It is so insidious and it becomes so pervasive and omnipresent that I'm not really sure there's a way to totally draw a line between what we as individuals truly want, like what our free will is and [00:07:00] what we've been conditioned to believe by society, right? Like it's like a nature versus nurture thing.
We don't, you can't fully draw the line on that in someone's human brain and say, oh, well, do you want to. Look 40, uh, look 60 years younger than your age because that's truly what you want. Or that's because what society has told you is attractive, right? I don't think there's a way to delineate that. Um, I think there are.
A group of people who are so deeply in touch with their values that they're able to make those distinctions and say, I'm not going to do this. Um, but I think for a lot of us, it gets really, really murky. Um, like I've talked about this before, right? I am 45. I have never done an any injections into my face.
I have no plans to, but I wear makeup. I get facials, I use Retin A, I'm doing research into buying, um, a red light mask to wear at home, right? And what is behind? Doing all things. Doing all those things is about me wanting my face to look different than it does, like, quote unquote naturally, meaning with no makeup, with no skincare [00:08:00] products.
Um, it's me wanting to. I think maintain in some ways, the way that I look right now, I'm actually really happy with how my face looks. I have lines, I have sunspots, I have all that stuff and none of it bothers me. Will that change over time? Potentially What I love for my face, to continue to look pretty close to how it looks?
Yes. Is that realistic? No. Am I doing things in the name of keeping it that way? Yeah, I am. So I'm being totally upfront with, with you. But again, there's, there's the, the, there's a range of interventions between, you know, surgical, deep plain facelifts and there are absolutely women who were in their forties getting deep, plain facelifts.
Right? I don't know how old Lindsay Lohan is. I think she's around my age. Um. There are women who are younger than me getting deep, plain facelifts, facelifts. Um, you know, so there's, there's a range from, okay, I'm gonna put a little concealer on mascara, all the way to getting a deep plain facelift, right?
All these, these interventions, I'm gonna call them, exist on a spectrum from completely [00:09:00] non-invasive to as invasive as you can get. Where do you decide what to do? How do you know what's where, what, where does it end? Um, so, you know, and I've talked about this, you know, very openly before on the podcast. Um.
The, I think really the thing around this for me was how different, how, how she, and I'm looking at the pictures. I'm talking like, how is that an 84-year-old woman? Right. And why, why, what's the drive to want to look 50, 60 years younger than you actually are? Again, I'm like, is that like the ultimate form of feminism?
Is that like taking back your body in a really powerful way, or is it. Completely delusional and com being completely brainwashed by society's unrealistic expectations of women. I don't know. Maybe it's both. Maybe it's neither. I don't know. But it's something that I'm thinking about and I wanted to talk about.
Um, you know, I think there's a [00:10:00] conversation around like, well, like I'm 45. I don't think of myself as being 45. I think of myself as being like 30. So it's like, okay, well if you think of yourself as being younger than you actually are, then wouldn't it follow suit to wanna look that age? That totally makes sense to me.
I don't know, at 84, does she feel 24? That feels like kind of a stretch, but even let's say at 84 she feels 54. Most women who are 54 look different than when they're 84. Right. And does it make sense to want to look the age that you feel? Yeah, I kind of think it does. Um, and is that part of what's driving this?
I think it partially is. But I don't think there's any way to separate, I think the expectations for women's appearances and are, are so profound and again, so insidious and so pervasive. I don't think we can ever separate any of the things that I'm talking about from that. Um, and I do think that [00:11:00] understanding and accepting what it is to live in a human body.
Is so, so important because there's time, there's money, there's energy, there's all these things that get invested with these interventions from, again, wearing concealer and mascara all the way to a deep plane facelift and all the plastic surgery, surgery that you can have. There's time, money, and energy that gets invested to all those things.
Different amounts, different, um, and different, uh, interventions are available to different people for lots of different reasons. Um, but. You know what? Understanding kind of like why we're doing those things and knowing how is this connected to my values and also not trying to, I think, I don't know. I was gonna say, not trying to defy what it means to live in a human body.
Because I think that with some of these things, you can do them. It's so funny in [00:12:00] this article, I was reading on the cut again, I'll, I'll try to remember to link these things. I realize I forget to link things that I talk about. They showed a bunch of before and after photos for some of these women. And honestly, I looked at some of these after photos.
And again, they're photos, right? So again, they're not totally realistic. She could look different in real life. I'm like, I don't really see a huge difference. Some of them I did, especially from the profiles I saw a huge difference. But some of them I didn't, and I would look at the before picture. I'm like, wow, she looks great.
Now that's me as an outsider, right? This is kinda the whole crux of body image. She was looking at herself and clearly was really unhappy. I have had a completely different, different lived experience on her. So I see kind of almost a different version of, of this woman and she sees of herself, right? And this is true of all of us, right?
I'll post photos of myself and be like, this is what I'm seeing. And you guys are like, oh my God, I don't see that you look great. And vice versa. This is proof that body image is opinion and not facts. Because if we can all look at the same picture and have a different opinion of what that thing looks like, right?
It's like blue is blue, but whether someone [00:13:00] looks pretty or not pretty, or wrinkly or not wrinkly or, um, attractive or not attractive, right? These are all very subjective things. Whether you like blue or don't like blue, that's subjective. But blue is blue, right? The sun is the sun. Grass is green. The ocean is wet, right?
Like these things are facts. So. I think that, you know, when we do these interventions, how like do we look better? Is it accomplishing the thing that we want it to accomplish? And then it's like, I was reading in the article where you have a deep plain facelift, but what about your neck? What about your, I always never know how to say this.
Take kind of your chest, your hands, right? You'll see people and there's like a total mismatch between what their face looks like and then everything below, right? Because everything below. As kind of lined up with their age, but their face is not because of all the work that's been done. And I don't know, like, again, does that mean anything?
Does it not mean anything? Um, but I think it's, it's, I think there's this, this important conversation around like, how hard are we fighting against [00:14:00] something that's completely natural and normal? Right? This brings up the conversation around menopause, right? Around physical changes that happen during menopause with weight gain, specifically around the belly and hair loss and all these things that are so hard to deal with.
And at the same time, they're also a natural, normal part of a, of a natural, normal, hormonal, biological change in our bodies. But there are a huge problem for us because of what we've taught is attractive and acceptable and makes us feel good. And I'm not judging now, right? Like I'm not in, I, I'm, I'm sure I'm in some form of perimenopause, but when I get to menopause.
And if I lose my hair, it will be devastating. Devastating. Um, so if you are going through that, my heart goes out to you. Um, and also it's like a normal part of that process, but it sucks, right? Because you can say that like, well, you know, it's a normal part of humanity that some people are gonna get cancer.
It doesn't mean it [00:15:00] doesn't suck. Of course it sucks. Um, but it's like. I don't know, like how do we reconcile all of that, right? And where do we, where does it make sense to intervene and where does it not make sense to intervene? Right? What can we accept? What can't we accept if there is, I think if we can't accept anything about aging or the shift we have in how we look, that seems problematic because I don't think we have to accept everything, but not being able to accept anything.
Right. And, and doing. You know, doing all the interventions to like modify what you look like because you can't accept anything, I think is tough. I think that's a really hard place to live because then it's like, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? What's the next thing? And there's no skills or tools to kind of deal with what's happening naturally in your body.
And I think there becomes a real disconnect from our bodies and from what it means to live and exist in a human body. Um. So this is just what it got me thinking this photo, like, [00:16:00] you know, and then when she did the, the reel that I'll, again, I'll link about the thirst trapp thing. Her face looks different, does not look like it does in this photo that I'm referencing.
Right. So again, photos manipulate, and I haven't even mentioned this yet, but I'm going to, I don't think she has come out and said this, and certainly we do not know this for a fact, but I would guess that she has probably had some type of a facelift. Right? It is. Most women who are in their eighties are going to have loose, sagging skin.
It's gravity. It's what happens, right? There's muscle loss. The muscles start to sag, faces sag, right? This is why people have facelifts, and I think it's completely misleading for her to say that she looks like this because of the skincare product, right? That that is hugely problematic and that is her being dishonest.
To me, that's no different than celebrities who have lost weight using a GLP one. And commenting or their, their, their weight loss being a topic of conversation and them saying, oh, [00:17:00] yeah, it was diet, exercise. It's not honest. And then that, that to me is what's really harmful. It's not even so much like you wanna use a GLP one, lose weight.
Cool. That's your thing. You wanna have a facelift, you wanna use this, you wanna do that. Laser Botox, all that. But if you are a public figure, especially she's promoting the skincare product, I don't think, and again, I don't have any facts, facts to back this up, so again, I could, I could be wrong and I'll fully say that, but I think most of us agree.
That she, her skin does not look that way solely because of that skin, hair product. Right. And so she's showing you that photo of herself looking like super hot, like a 26-year-old and it's like, oh, it's because of this, this serum. No. Like it's not. And so we can logically sit here and have that conversation, but we still internalize these things and I think some people might actually believe that.
Right. And there's been this trend recently, I think one of the general, um. Either Kylie or Kendall came out recently and talked about her boob job and talked about exactly what she had done and how many units of, [00:18:00] uh, whatever they use, not silicone. Um, I don't even, I don't even remember like, and what size she is.
And then there was like this trend, I think, um, Barbara Corcoran did it, I think, came out and talked about all the stuff she's had done to her face and I'm like. That's actually really cool, right? That's owning it. This is what I had done. I'm gonna be honest with you because I don't want people to think that this is how I look, quote unquote, naturally.
And I think that that disclosure, especially for, for public figures is really important. Um. So that we know what is a, what it looks like to naturally age and what it looks like to intervene along the way. Um, so I think that was another huge issue that I had with this. And you can see there's comments around that, right?
Like very likely to, for her face to look the way it does at 84, she's had, I don't know if it's a facelift or who knows. I mean, there's so many procedures out there that I know nothing about. Um. And so really that's just what I wanted to talk about. Like I'm sharing some of my opinions, but I'm [00:19:00] also sharing like the ways in which, like, what does this mean?
Like, and that I am conflicted and I don't wanna just jump to conclusions. Um, and I wanna think critically about it and what are the impacts of this and are there, 'cause I think a lot of us will be like, oh, good for her. And a lot of us would be like. Oh my God, that's ridiculous. And like, is there a middle ground?
Can you think both and feel both simultaneously? Um, I'd love to have a conversation around this with anyone who listens. Send me a message, a dm or anything I'd love to chat about and just talk, right? Like, I'm not here to try and convince anyone of anything. Um, I wanted to create a, a place for conversation around something like this.
'cause I think the nuance just isn't there. Um. You know, just from the quick scrolling of comments, right? It's kind of either like you're on like team A or team B, and I think it's a lot more complicated than that, and I think deciding what interventions you're going to do to your appearance gets complicated and kind of owning that and knowing why you're [00:20:00] doing what you're doing.
Right? Haven't mentioned the word values, but here it is, right? That's really what it comes back to. It feels, when I would think about injecting my face with something, I get like this ick feeling for me. There are plenty of women who do it, and I think they look great, but there's something about it for me that doesn't feel right.
Getting a red light mask doesn't give me ick. I'm like, oh, cool. Getting a facial doesn't give me ick Wearing makeup doesn't give me ick. Um, and so you'll know in your gut how it feels for you and why you're doing it. Um, and I think that's really important. We don't know how Martha feels. I don't know.
Maybe she might feel phenomenal. She might feel terrible. We have no way of knowing, and I think that's a big part of this conversation that's missing. Um. Which I wouldn't necessarily expect her to have. And again, I don't know how much we can't always delineate. Uh, just acknowledging that society and culture and what we've been taught since we were literally born is obviously playing a huge role in this.
That's why it becomes even more important to be able to identify your values so that you have some type of a filter and something to ground you. Otherwise, it's [00:21:00] just like, woo, I'm just like floating along here and I'm grabbing at things left and right to make me feel like something to make me feel pretty or confident or attractive, or.
Because I don't know what does that for me. So I'm gonna keep pulling out all these external things. Um, and I think the last thing I wanted to share is related, but unrelated. Um, I follow, she started out as a blogger. I, I guess I would still call her a blogger. Name's Emily Shuman of Cupcakes and Cashmere.
I have followed her basically since she started in the mid, late two thousands. Um, I really like her. She's based in la. She's a couple years younger than me. And I've been following her for a really long time, which is really cool. Um, well before social media, right? Like 2007, 2008. Anyway, she has a substack now and she had her mom on it.
And her mom is in, I guess her sixties, early seventies. And it was kind of like a q and a with her mom. And her mom said The question was kind of around like, how do you feel about your parents? What are your [00:22:00] thoughts on like, you know. Injections, all that kind of stuff. And here's what she said, 'cause it really hit me.
She said, I try to focus on looking good for the age I am, rather than chasing youth. And here is the best part. Every so often I remind myself that I've already been 20. I don't need to look 20 again. And that really hit me, right? Like we have this desire to look like a different version of ourselves that no longer exists, that existed in the past, even though who we are is not that person.
And I think this does circle back around a little bit to like, well, I feel younger than I am. And I totally get that 'cause I feel that too. Um, but I'm also. I might feel 30, but I'm not who I was at 30. I'm 45. I didn't have a kid at 30. Did I have a dog? I had a dog. I lived in an apartment. I worked in advertising.
Like I'm a totally different person than I was and I, all that life experience, all that change, [00:23:00] that's me. That's who I am. And I want my, what I look like to reflect that. And if I look like I did when I was 30, then to me it's stripping away. All of the growth, the change, the evolution of myself as a person that gets like sucked away and it gets ignored in the name of looking younger.
And I think this is really important, um, an important thing to think about and think about what it means for you. Um, she goes on to say what feels better to me is looking like the best version of myself now. And I think this concept of the version of yourself that you are now is really important because everything that we do to our faces, let's be honest, is in an effort to look younger, fresher.
I, I, I would say. Why am I gonna buy a red light mask? Well, because a boost collagen production can help five lines. That's [00:24:00] an effort to look younger. Right? I can fully acknowledge that. Um, is it less invasive than Botox? For sure. I'm not injecting anything into my face and you know, there's not even, I think, hardcore research that shows that the red light doesn't anything.
Um. So for me it feels kind of comfortable and safe. But if I were to sit here and tell you that it wasn't about kind of changing my appearance, I would, I would be lying. I think we're all lying to ourselves if we sit here and say that, but this concept of looking like the best version of myself now that really resonates to me, the best version of myself at 45.
What does that look like for me? It doesn't look like I did when I was 30. I don't wanna look like I did when I was 30. Like, I wanna look like who I am at 45 because that's me. That's who I am as a person. If I look like that I did when I was 30, again, that doesn't feel authentic to me. It feels like I'm stripping away and ignoring the last 15 years of my life.
Um, and so I think that there needs to be a connection between what we look like and who we are as a person and all the life that we've lived. Now, again, that's not to say that we can't do [00:25:00] anything, but I think. Trying to look like we did 15, 20, 25, 30, whoever, however many years. 'cause it, trust me, as you get to be 50, 60, 70, you're probably, you know, some women are not trying to look just 10 years longer.
They're trying to look 20, 30 plus years younger. Um, in the case of Martha Stewart, I, I, I literally think she looks 50, 60 years younger than she actually is. Of course, I just lost my train of thought as I went off on that tangent. What, what, like what are we doing at that? Why are we doing and, and what happens to the person inside who has lived all of those years?
So I think I'm going to leave it with that. I hope it gets you thinking. That's what all I want to do is I just want to get you thinking so that when you choose to do something, you have crystal clear clarity as to why you are doing it and how it's gonna make you feel. And if it makes you feel great, awesome.
And if you do it and you're like, this feels off. Cool. That's great too. Then you know you're not gonna do that again. You're gonna try a different version. Um, [00:26:00] is to be critically thinking and paying attention and knowing why you're doing it. Not just doing it because some influencer did it and her face looks different and you think it looks better.
And also remembering that everything you see online is a, a picture, it's a video. And the manipulation that has with that, right? And seeing what someone looks like in real life, especially with, in terms of how we're being influenced is often never happens. And is what you're seeing through your phone, what that person actually looks like in real life.
And you will never know the answer to that unless you meet them. Um, certainly if you've had friends that have had work that's different. Um, so yeah, those are my thoughts. Thanks for listening. Um, I'll be back soon.